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Zeiss LOXIA line coming!

Discussion in 'Sony Alpha E-Mount Lenses' started by Jefenator, Aug 25, 2014.

  1. Jefenator

    Jefenator TalkEmount Top Veteran

    876
    Nov 23, 2012
    Oregon, USA
    Jeff
    http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/zeiss-will-soon-announce-the-new-loxia-lens-line/#.U_uM1iSWoQ0.link

    It's been promised almost from the beginning [of full-frame e-mount] but now the rumors are getting stronger and more specific.

    If the latest murmur proves true, in addition to being compact and very high quality, the LOXIA lenses will have aperture rings. I'm not sure how or even if EXIF data and/or automatic control will be possible, but I'm still excited. (Who knows - maybe we'll get the best of both worlds.)

    I can't wait to see what lengths & speeds will be offered. (Not that I'll be able to afford any of this, any time soon...)
     
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  2. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    There will be a chip to transmit EXIF data, but everything else is completely manual including the aperture ring. This is probably done to keep the size and price to the absolute minimum possible while providing excellent quality.

    I'm quite happy with my lenses right now, but if they offer a fast portrait prime like a 85mm 1.4 I'd be very tempted.
     
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  3. José De Bardi

    José De Bardi Assistant in Virtue

    Aug 31, 2013
    Dorset, UK
    José
    +1

    Something in that range is really missing in the emount line up.
     
  4. ggibson

    ggibson TalkEmount Regular

    154
    Sep 1, 2011
    I'm eager for any new native FE lenses to hit the market, but it's disappointing that they will only be MF. There are already so many good legacy lenses to adapt, I hope these Loxia lenses are comparatively small and affordable (the latter seems less likely).
     
  5. xXx1

    xXx1 TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jan 15, 2013
    I think that they may be relatively inexpensive for genuine Zeiss lenses but nothing really affordable. Zeiss planar 85mm/1.4 sells something like 1300 USD.

    I am hoping that they will utilize narrow flange focal distance of E-mount and bring exiting new lenses to the market. That makes it possible to make some lenses that are good and inexpensive to produce.
     
  6. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    Don't forget that their manual lens range for Canon and Nikon mounts is relatively affordable (about €600 for the 50mm 1.4, or €1100 for the 50mm 2.0 Makro-Planar), so I guess they won't break the bank completely.
     
  7. xXx1

    xXx1 TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jan 15, 2013
    That is quite true. I think that Zeiss prices are almost ok considering their quality. However I think that there won't be anything for me. I will probably get Zeiss Contax 28mm/2.8 before Christmas and Mitakon 50mm/0.95 before summer and I don't need anything else.
     
  8. quezra

    quezra TalkEmount Top Veteran

    916
    Aug 22, 2012
    This is exciting and raises a lot of questions!

    How would they possibly sell a manual-only 50/1.5 for much more than the 55/1.8? Won't the price of FE lenses cap the price on the Loxia ones?

    Is this is the only way Sony will allow a fast 35mm that won't threaten RX1 sales?

    Will they suffer from rangefinder limitations such as long minimum focus distance?

    Will there be any collusion with Sony not to overlap focal lengths (e.g. 24/1.8Z), or will they compete (almost) directly as with the Touit line?

    Anyway, I'd love to see an 18 or 21mm (f/2.8?), a 24 or 28mm f/2.0, and something in the 90mm range - spaces that Sony doesn't yet have covered.
     
  9. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    I doubt they'll go for a 50mm right from the start as the 55 1.8 is a great lens. But there are many ways how a 50mm LOXIA could be justified. First, it could be faster - f/1.2 is enough reason to opt for this lens instead of the 55. Second, it could be higher quality. While The 55mm is a VERY good lens, judging by the Otus, Zeiss obviously knows how to build even better lenses. Third, it could be a mechanical masterpiece. There are many photographers who would rather buy a mechanical lens with an incredible build quality than an AF lens with good build quality.


    The E-mount is an open standard by now. Sony has no way of actually forbidding Zeiss to build any lens - Zeiss has nothing to do with Sony as a company after all (except the obvious cooperation in some lens designs).


    Why should they? They're modern lens designs, supposed to be built with the most recent knowledge in glass physics and lens design.


    They're full frame and manual focus, so they don't directly compete with the Touit line.

    Anyway, I'd love to see an 18 or 21mm (f/2.8?), a 24 or 28mm f/2.0, and something in the 90mm range - spaces that Sony doesn't yet have covered.[/QUOTE]

    I'm pretty sure Zeiss knows that super wide angle and tele primes are scarce in the full frame E-mount line-up, so these are probably the spots they'll cover first.
     
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  10. Bill

    Bill TalkEmount Veteran

    339
    Oct 22, 2012
    Brisbane, Australia
    Bill
    I suspect that with the smaller form factor of manual lenses, Zeiss will focus on the longer end where size is the problem for the diminutive A7/r/s. I think 85mm is the no-brainer. The question is will they go out to 100mm?

    I don't think they will go further out because that would require stabilisation -- and the size goes up again.

    On the other end I think there will be a standard set of wides at 15mm, 21mm and 25mm.

    I expect the lenses will report the aperture in exif. And, if that's the case, we should expect that in aperture mode using the external ring will do the setting in the camera's processor (as the Touits do in the Fujis).

    Will that ring work through fly-by-wire or will it be truly mechanical? And, if it's fly-by-wire will there be an "A" for auto?

    Will the Loxia line also provide a mount for an (unannounced) Fuji full-frame? (If Fuji goes full frame they're going to need a lot of full-frame lenses in a hurry.)

    Interesting times.
     
  11. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    The Sony E-mount electronic protocol does not support fly-by-wire aperture, so yes, the aperture ring indeed needs to be mechanical. And because that's the case, I'm pretty sure the focus ring is fully mechanical too. After all, without AF, it wouldn't make sense to put a big and expensive focus motor in there.
     
  12. Bill

    Bill TalkEmount Veteran

    339
    Oct 22, 2012
    Brisbane, Australia
    Bill
    Poki,

    Aren't all the Sony e-mounts fly-by-wire aperture? The aperture mechanics in the lenses are driven by signals from the camera, rather than by an actual mechanical ring.
     
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  13. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    Yes. But they don't include an aperture ring. The E-mount has no protocol for communicating with an aperture ring on a lens, which means if there is one, it needs to be mechanical.

    As for fly-by-wire focus - the E-mount specification includes that mechanism as part of the AF protocol. That's because, in order to change focus by just transferring information from the camera to the lens, a focus motor is necessary. Such a focus motor could also do AF since the processing is done by the camera. This means that, in order to build manual focus lenses with fly-by-wire focus, Zeiss would need to include an AF motor. And in that case, why on earth should they disable AF? Wouldn't make any sense. This means that the focus ring is going to be mechanically coupled.
     
  14. xXx1

    xXx1 TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jan 15, 2013
    I think that wide angles are more attractive than tele lenses as OSS and autofocus are assets there. Another is about 90mm portrait lens, however there is Samyang one available (I think that its major weakness is sharpness) and Zeiss 85mm/1.4 Planar sells for 1200 euro or so. Maybe they have some other design planned but beating planar is difficult.
     
  15. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    The 85 1.4 Planar is a pretty old design. Beating it in both optical quality and size/weight is not hard for a company with the optical know how of Zeiss. Also, OSS is a little overrated. Especially nowadays, when you can go to ISO 6400 easily, achieving shutter speeds of 1/200th of a second and faster is not a huge problem in most situations. And lets not forget that OSS actually has an impact on image quality, although the perceived impact is relatively small.
     
  16. quezra

    quezra TalkEmount Top Veteran

    916
    Aug 22, 2012
    50/1.2 would be amazing, but I don't think Zeiss generally make superfast lenses, especially in more recent times (or with ZM lenses). The Otus is huge, and I think the only ZM lens below f/1.8 is the 50/1.5?
    I thought I read somewhere that Sony owns a stake in Zeiss (like they do with Tamron). Then again, Tamron don't particularly seem to be helping Sony much with E-mount.
    That's what I hope too, but we still don't know whether they are retrofitted ZM lenses for example.
    Yes, what I meant is that with Touits, Zeiss went for focal lengths Sony directly provides. But with the SonyZeiss 24/1.8, they appear to have "agreed" not to put a cheaper lens in that range, in spite of the huge popularity of 35mm (equivalent).
    My hope too!
     
  17. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    No, the Zeiss AG has only one shareholder. The Carl Zeiss Stiftung owns 100% of the shares.



    Zeiss always designed completely new lens designs for their recent lens line-ups like the Touit or Otus.


    The 24mm is a Zeiss lens after all, no need to cover the lens twice.
     
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  18. jai

    jai TalkEmount Top Veteran

    589
    Feb 4, 2013
    Actually I would be really excited for a 24mm Zeiss that wasn't autofocus, that was all metal build, and could also work on full frame but I would want it for APSC
     
  19. Bill

    Bill TalkEmount Veteran

    339
    Oct 22, 2012
    Brisbane, Australia
    Bill
    Sure, no question about focus.

    I think we should wait and see, however, about aperture. It would be of huge benefit if the lens could report back the aperture to the exposure calculation. If that's possible then there's nothing to prevent Zeiss from controlling aperture electronically from a ring. (I would like to think that Zeiss and Sony considered this before the A7/r/s came out.)
     
  20. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    Of course the lens will report the chosen aperture back to the camera. The question just is why should it be electronically controlled? There's simply no benefit from it. Well, except maybe using shutter priority mode, but building a very complex mechanical system into a lens just for that?