You guys ready for FF NEX ?

Discussion in 'Sony Alpha E-Mount Cameras' started by nianys, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. nianys

    nianys TalkEmount All-Pro

    Aug 23, 2012
    A could have named this thread "be careful what you wish for".

    I've been shooting FF on and off along with APS-C (before I tried m4/3 and came back screaming to NEX) for a few years.
    Started with the original Canon 5D (a true classic camera), and then on to the Nikon D700, which I had two units of, and that is still my reference camera to this day. I also had two 1DMkII bodies, which have the weird and now abandonned APS-H x1.3 Canon crop factor sensor. This, for my use, may be the ultimate perfect sensor size. Very very close in DOF control to FF, yet a tiny advantage for telephoto. JUST right (of course it was too good to stay alive, lol).

    So, we all know (or reasonably expect anyway) Sony is working very hard on a mirrorless FF camera for 2013 (hey, remember they already have an FF COMPACT model out !!!).

    At first I thought I'd be all over FF NEX (and I probably will). BUT we have to wonder how much benefit that will bring vs. negative. Cleaner ISO, sure. Not that I really care. The 16 MP chip in the N, R, (F ?) and 6 is already VERY good. I use a lot of flash anyway so I rarely resort to high ISO. Shallower DOF. Now THAT's where we have to be careful. Of course as a shallow DOF nut and addict, I want that, but nailing critical focus with fast prime is already a challenge on APS-C, so it might become hair pulling with FF. Certainly something to consider anyway. And of course, wide angle. Ah ah, there's a catch here, landscape shooters will love getting their wides well... wide again. However, a "normal" lover like me (having about a dozen nifties right now, and collecting more) might all the sudden be in an akward situation with all my normals losing their short telephoto status that is so sweet for portraiture. Meaning I'd have to go a look for good 70ish and 85mm replacements, hmm...

    So I'll tell you what Son's got to do (SONY, ARE U LISTENING !?!); They need to take the same smart path that Nikon did : allow BOTH FF and APS-C ratios in the same camera !! My D700 could shoot in "Dx" (Nikon's name for crop factor) mode (albeit at a lower MP count) and though this received a lot of bad mouthing from clueless people, real users took advantage of this brilliant feature, with no IQ loss (in my experience).

    Please Sony give us an FF camera that can still retain its ability to use a crop of its chip, at the user's choice. I do think the A99 does it (??), so I'm hopeful.

    Waddaya guys think ??
  2. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Sure we will be able to shoot in crop mode, but as this will decrease resolution from 24 to 10 MP, it's pretty pointless.

    Advantages of FF? High ISO. I don't need more than 3200, and thats good enough on APS-C (sensors will get better over time, too). Shallow DoF. Don't need more than a 50, 60 or 85mm 1.4 can offer on APS-C, and I can use bigger apertures when filming in low light without getting thungs oof. Wode-angles? Even as a landscape shooter, I hardly ever leave the scope of 18-35mm ff equivalent.

    I don't see the real advantages for mirrorless cameras. Price and size of both lenses and bodies just won't justify it. At least not for me.
  3. WT21

    WT21 TalkEmount Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    Aug 7, 2011
    I would like a FF mirrorless. Think of the legacy 28s that would be useful again. Also, I prefer 50 to 85, and since the entire worldwide photography market has my tastes, it's clearly the direction to head in! (this is satire, btw, of all the posts we all put up on these boards about what we want in a camera).
  4. nianys

    nianys TalkEmount All-Pro

    Aug 23, 2012
    I too would end up getting one, and I do not think of a lower resolution crop mode as "useless", not at all, but of course it all depends on one's needs. I'm pretty sure Sony will release one anyway, there seems to be a huge demand, and they can count on my money here ;)
  5. Luckypenguin

    Luckypenguin TalkEmount Regular

    Sep 26, 2012
    Brisbane, Australia
    The fact is that I just don't covet a camera with a 135 format sensor, and not to the point where I would be prepared to spend significantly more for one than an APS-C or 4/3 sensor camera.
  6. quezra

    quezra TalkEmount Top Veteran

    Aug 22, 2012
    Well, I don't see why I'd sell my 5N just because I'd happen to have a FF NEX as well ;) Seriously, the fact that all my lenses would instantly be two focal lengths on two bodies would be sweet enough (hey I like 28s on APSC what are you talking about!!). The real worry is how these old legacies perform on a high megapixel full frame - I have a feeling my current satisfaction with them may not last as the CA, vignetting and corner performance might be a bit hard to swallow on a 24-36 megapixel FF camera. There would be no real need to shoot wide open on FF too - F2-F2.8 with a moderately high ISO (if RX1 is anything to go by, 3200-6400 are fine for JPEG!) would do for both bokeh and speed. And then there's a bunch of cheap sweet 90mm lenses that would suddenly interest me just for FF (starting with the Contax G 90) - I wouldn't care much for this length on crop sensors except for macro.

    I am seriously thinking about getting the RX1. I never thought I would say it, but between buying the 24mm Zeiss and second body and simply plopping extra for the RX1, I might just do the latter. I don't think FF NEX still camera is going to come out by next year though, as Sony the company need to work on a lens lineup because they sure as heck don't want everyone getting the body-only kit and not spending on a lens which is where a lot of the profit is also to be made.
  7. Bugleone

    Bugleone TalkEmount Veteran

    Aug 21, 2011
    A mirrorless 'FF' is close to the camera system I have been waitng for these past 10 years,...depending on the implementation I WILL scrape my pennies together when it eventually appears. I make large exhibition prints with 20x16 inches as the base size and formerly used medium format film cameras. I can't afford/justify a medium format digital back and dislike DSLR's although the nikon d800/d600 has got my attention and now I'm wating for a modern camera system with 'FF' sensor.......

    ......Although I'm an enthusiastic NEX user I greatly hope that the other makers get busy with 'FF' as I shall only spend 'real' money with Sony reluctantly as they are a rubbish company when it comes to their customer ethics and policies, NEX is the ONLY sony product in my house and thus will it remain.
  8. kevistopheles

    kevistopheles TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jun 18, 2012
    The main reason for me would be so that my 24mm lens would be a EWA focal length again. That said, I am not finding myself wanting a FF NEX.
  9. Jefenator

    Jefenator TalkEmount Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    Nov 23, 2012
    Oregon, USA
    I wish to heck Sony would just forget about the lens system and put out the #&%@$ body! :rolleyes: Seriously - just slap the A99 sensor in a N7 body (go ahead and expand the form as necessary) and I'll worry about the glass. (I know, I know... not going to happen - though I think there is a decent sized group that would pre-order that in a heartbeat.)

    My NEX-7 narrowly won out over a FF body last summer and I've come extremely close to pulling the trigger on a Nikon D800 or D600. I'm very glad I found the NEX system, though - IMHO and for my purposes it is a vastly superior way to work over optical DSLRs. The crop factor bugs me sometimes but the live view EVF, adaptability and overall handling more than make up for that. (The SEL24 doesn't hurt, either...)

    My desire for FF is not entirely based in logic. For all the close-ups I have to do, focus is PLENTY shallow and the tighter crop is actually an asset. The two greatest advantages I can think of would be enhanced high-ISO and better subject isolation for full-body candid shots. Both would be welcome, but are not quite enough of a priority for me to do something drastic (like going back to DSLR - or ponying up for the A99).

    I would dearly love to use my 100mm in the mild-telephoto range and my nifty-fifties as "normal". And I'm already stockpiling 35/2s in anticipation of this FF MILC development. :cool: Hopes should be tempered with reality, though - especially for wide angle. If lenses are yielding undesirably soft corners on the crop sensor (most of mine do - even when stopped down sometimes) that's only going to get worse on the larger format. (Of course a coarser pixel pitch may partially offset that - another reason I would love to at least try a D600.)

    I'm now a Sony fan but not a Sony fanboy. If someone else (say, Fuji) were to come out far enough ahead in the FF MILC race, that would definitely tempt me. I really hope Sony steps up, though - I don't particularly feel like buying & sorting through another half dozen lens adapters. ;)
  10. nianys

    nianys TalkEmount All-Pro

    Aug 23, 2012
    My thoughts, exactly. Give us the body, I'll work around the lens issue myself, thanks ;)
  11. NickCyprus

    NickCyprus Super Moderator

    Oct 11, 2012
    I bet Sony will price a FF Mirrorless very expensive tho...
    Considering their P&S FF RX-1 (non-interchangeable lens camera) is.....$2800 :eek:
  12. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Yeah - with a 35mm f/2 Zeiss lens that covers a ff sensor. Considering the 24mm 1.8 E-Mount CZ lens costs 1100 I'd say this lens is worth at least 1500. Leaves 1300 + 500 premium for the privilege of having interchangeable lenses, which makes it less than 2000. Makes sense compared to the VG900 too.
  13. eno789

    eno789 TalkEmount Top Veteran

    Jan 1, 2012
    NoCal, USA
    In addition to the 1.5 crop, I would like an FF camera that provides a 1.2 crop. I'm pretty sure Sony will do 1.5 crop to support existing e-mount lenses when they release a FF NEX, maybe they already do that on the FF video camera. Now with any FF lenses that got aperture ring, we have interchangable bodies. It's only a question of when. But I'm afraid we'll need to wait a while, probably 2014. And the initial price will be comparable to the Nikon D600 or Canon 6D.
  14. freddytto

    freddytto TalkEmount All-Pro

    Dec 2, 2011
    Puebla, Mexico
    I do not spend much money on a FF camera, like the Sony DSC-RX1 is about 3000 bucks, with taxes, would have to win the lottery and then if you would take the chance. But for now I'm very satisfied with my nex5R and nex7.
  15. Bimjo

    Bimjo Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Oct 28, 2011
    Washington State
    I'm with both of you, but I could live with a smaller than 135 sensor if it was square, say 30x30 & yeah, I'll worry about lenses. Actually I won't, I've got that pretty much covered. :)