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Valid Competition for DxOMark?

Discussion in 'Sony Alpha E-Mount Lenses' started by starmite, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. starmite

    starmite TalkEmount Regular

    40
    Dec 20, 2012
    I stumbled across "LenScore™ Digital Camera Lens Rating" the other day and am wondering if other forum members have seen this website and have confidence in its results?

    The site claims that all lenses should be tested against the same sensor, and that is the basis for their lens testing. Intuitively, the rationale make some sense, but I would also think that, particularly with some of the latest lenses, that lens designers are also relying on the computing power within the camera body to achieve certain results with a captured image. I'm not sure how a one lens sensor fits all test can factor that in. Thoughts, anyone?
     
  2. WoodWorks

    WoodWorks Super Moderator

    Dec 12, 2012
    Ashland, OR, USA
    David
    Hm. Does camera software have any effect on sharpness? Or is it just light falloff and distortion?
     
  3. fractal

    fractal TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jun 17, 2014
    Southeastern PA
    Chris
    Interesting.

    It seems across the board the longer focal length the better rating; and of course primes ahead of zooms.
     
  4. WestOkid

    WestOkid TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jan 25, 2014
    New Jersey, USA
    Gary
    Not in the E-mount range - Below are the ratings in highest to lowest order. Note the second highest rating is the 25mm Battis, Also the 35mm Loxia is rated higher than the 50mm Loxia. Nothing consistent here.

    upload_2016-1-26_13-40-59.

    As for the OP. I actually agree with the premise, "that all lenses should be tested against the same sensor". I haven't read more about how LenScore resolves this dilemma, but without this understanding you end up with debates about a lens, when in fact the issue is the lens + body + software combination. Even with the lens flexibility the mirror-less affords, we can't assume because a lens performs well on a Canonikon or Leica body it will perform equally as well on a Sony body. There are several examples of this fact on the web. Tony Northrup actually tested several Canon lenses on the A7RII when it first came out and found situations where a lens performed differently on the Sony body. There were times when a lens was softer in the corners and had vignetting that didn't show when used on the Canon body. He couldn't say if it was the Camera causing it or the Metabones adapter, but it doesn't really matter. The point is that these days the lens works in combination with the body and software. Looking at each component individually doesn't really tell a complete story.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
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  5. fractal

    fractal TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jun 17, 2014
    Southeastern PA
    Chris
    Loxia as a group score better than the Sony FE lenses as a group. Within the Loxia group the longer focal lengths are at the top, same with the Sony. Take a look at each group - Nikon, Canon, Zeiss, Sony. The pattern I described is clear.
     
  6. Nexnut

    Nexnut TalkEmount Top Veteran

    In what order would they list apples, oranges and bananas?
     
  7. WestOkid

    WestOkid TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jan 25, 2014
    New Jersey, USA
    Gary
    I'm not sure what you are looking at. Maybe it's me. The list I posted from the site has the shorter 35 Loxia ranked higher than the longer 50 Loxia Furthermore, the Sony 55 ranks higher than them both.
     
  8. starmite

    starmite TalkEmount Regular

    40
    Dec 20, 2012
    Yep, that's the point I was making, and it's potentially a flaw in how the site evaluates lenses. Still, it's worthwhile to have another source of "unbiased" measurements of lenses to consider.
     
  9. quezra

    quezra TalkEmount Top Veteran

    916
    Aug 22, 2012
    The site is useful, but just like DxO "aggregate" scores, you need to read between the lines. First of all, click 'about' to see what the individual numbers rate, and their weighting. Is distortion really worth a weighting of 5, since basically after distortion correction, it affects sharpness, and appears to be double counted (with Resolving Power)? That's one of the only ways I can think why the 16-35 scores so low among the zooms.

    Anyway, they are transparent about their particular choices and the individual numbers might be useful, as long as you read them critically. I think the main issue is that you can't really visualize a lot of the effects they put numbers on and just have to trust them. DxO has great sharpness field maps for different apertures and focal lengths, for example. I have never found my lenses to operate differently from what DxO predicts on the field map, for example, and I find them extremely handy for a quick guide on how much to stop down for which things.
     
  10. fractal

    fractal TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jun 17, 2014
    Southeastern PA
    Chris
    Look at Canon's lenses. The top is dominated with long primes LenScore™ Digital Camera Lens Rating

    The mid to bottom is short primes and the bottom are zooms. Same with Nikon. Sony (A + Emount) top scores are the SAL 300mm 2.8 and the SAL 500mm f/4 followed by the ZA 135mm 1.8.

    I'm just curious why this is so. I know in general primes are better than zooms but why are long scoring better than short focal lengths?
     
  11. quezra

    quezra TalkEmount Top Veteran

    916
    Aug 22, 2012
    Long lenses generally have the light coming in at nearly parallel lines - so the things like CA, distortion, flare, etc are easier to control than in wide lenses.

    Prime lenses are better than zooms. (I think everyone can understand why?)

    Newer lenses that were designed digitally are better than older lenses that were designed manually. So for example the Canon 11-24 punches way above its weight because most Canon lens designs are actually very old.
     
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  12. fractal

    fractal TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jun 17, 2014
    Southeastern PA
    Chris
    Thank you for the explanation.