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The Mirrorless War (yt link)

dburanich

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Kevin Raber has some interesting points.

I'm not confident Nikon/Canon will be able to match the A7III out the door. But competition is good, because it encourages innovation and drives prices down.
I am a firm believer in not buying the very first model year of anything.
Cameras, cars etc.
They are generally prototypes that need a lot of tweaking at the consumer's expense.
When the 2003 Ford Expedition newest body change came out I waited to buy until 2004.
I was glad I did.
There were so many changes that would boggle your mind just to make a good product.
They can do that at their expense not mine.
 

WoodWorks

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I am a firm believer in not buying the very first model year of anything.
Cameras, cars etc.
They are generally prototypes that need a lot of tweaking at the consumer's expense.
That’s probably wise. But my last two motorcycles and my current car were first-year models, and I bought the Panasonic G1 and the Sony A7 just as soon as they were first released. All of them were new technology, and I never had cause to regret any of those purchases. Maybe I just got lucky?
 

JonathanF2

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I wouldn't underestimate Nikon. They have some of the best image processing and lens manufacturing capabilities. If they end up falling short in some areas with the body, I can see them making major strides when it comes to glass and image performance. The big question mark is if their mirrorless body will have adequate OSPDAF? Sony has the big lead in this area over other mirrorless cameras. If Nikon can close the gap, then they'll have a big advantage due to their other strengths.
 

Jefenator

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I think in certain aspects they might be able to exceed Sony, right out of the gate - particularly when it comes to providing a certain continuity of experience to their existing users. (I'm thinking: build quality, ergonomics, color handling, customer support and not least of all OEM retro compatibility.)
Since Leica was able to produce good AF on their first FF MILC, I think Canon & Nikon ought to be able to do at least that well. I predict they will be faster than Sony's "Mark II" models and closer to if not 100% as good as the current A9 & A7iii. (Something "original A7" slow would constitute a catastrophic stumble IMHO.)
 

Richard Alan Acosta

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I also do not think Nikon or Canon will exceed Sony out of the gate. It took Sony a few years to get it right in my opinion and they finally nailed it with the Sony a7R III and a9. Im sure Nikon/Canon will have their number of issues and bugs they will have to iron out. I was a recent Nikon user but instead of waiting for them to release this new mirrorless system and mount, I went with whats proven and switched to Sony. Lets see what happens!
 

JonathanF2

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I think in certain aspects they might be able to exceed Sony, right out of the gate - particularly when it comes to providing a certain continuity of experience to their existing users. (I'm thinking: build quality, ergonomics, color handling, customer support and not least of all OEM retro compatibility.)
Since Leica was able to produce good AF on their first FF MILC, I think Canon & Nikon ought to be able to do at least that well. I predict they will be faster than Sony's "Mark II" models and closer to if not 100% as good as the current A9 & A7iii. (Something "original A7" slow would constitute a catastrophic stumble IMHO.)
Another advantage Nikon will have is repair support. Nikon will be able to directly repair their mirrorless equipment in addition to all the Nikon authorized repair facilities. You can walk into either the LA or Melville office and drop your gear off. Nikon Professional Services will also provide expedited repairs, equipment loaners and will have Nikon support staff at all major events. At least in the US, Nikon will most likely continue their 1 year + 4 year limited lens warranty for 5 years total.
 

Kiwi Paul

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Exciting times ahead though, all speculation at the moment, I'm not that invested in any system at the moment either, at least in full frame terms, I have an A72 and 2 primes and 2 zooms so it wouldn't be that bigger deal for me to jump ship if it suited, I love the Sony gear but I'm not a fam boy of any system in that respect.
 

firemist

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I wouldn't underestimate Nikon. They have some of the best image processing and lens manufacturing capabilities. If they end up falling short in some areas with the body,
In the *old* days we used to say Nikon made the best lenses, Minolta made the best bodies, and Canon made the best compromises :)
 

WestOkid

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I have to admit I'm pretty excited about the Nikon. First real images where leaked and it looks great. I can't wait to see what specs the Z6 and Z7 bring to the table.
 
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I'm excited to see what Nikon will do, finally there's going to be some competition in the FF mirrorless segment. But I don't expect to leave Sony anytime soon, if only because Zeiss hasn't announced Loxia's in Z-mount yet :). As far as I'm concerned, it's about lenses, not cameras.
 

Kiwi Paul

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I'm excited to see what Nikon will do, finally there's going to be some competition in the FF mirrorless segment. But I don't expect to leave Sony anytime soon, if only because Zeiss hasn't announced Loxia's in Z-mount yet :). As far as I'm concerned, it's about lenses, not cameras.
That use to be the adage back in film days where the camera was just a receptacle to hold the film and has long as it has good functionality etc the lenses really did depict the IQ but these days with electronic cameras with sensors the camera body is just as important as the lens it's no longer just a receptacle to hold film the camera processes the image, stores the image not to mention the myriad of other functions built into camera bodies these days so I'd argue cameras are just as if not more important than lenses in this day and age.
 
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...
I'd argue cameras are just as if not more important than lenses in this day and age.
You're right, I have to be more precise: I don't see Nikon come up with a camera that's essentially better than a Sony A7 series one. Better ergonomics and some other marginal improvements maybe, but not significant improvements in sensor or autofocus performance. So if the cameras will essentially offer the same, I think it's about the lenses. My guess is that a Nikon mirrorless camera mainly will be interesting for owners of Nikon glass because there's hope that F-mount Nikon glass will adapt well.
 

Kiwi Paul

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You're right, I have to be more precise: I don't see Nikon come up with a camera that's essentially better than a Sony A7 series one. Better ergonomics and some other marginal improvements maybe, but not significant improvements in sensor or autofocus performance. So if the cameras will essentially offer the same, I think it's about the lenses. My guess is that a Nikon mirrorless camera mainly will be interesting for owners of Nikon glass because there's hope that F-mount Nikon glass will adapt well.
Ah I see what you mean and yep I agree totally.
 

davect01

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I am a firm believer in not buying the very first model year of anything.
Cameras, cars etc.
They are generally prototypes that need a lot of tweaking at the consumer's expense.
When the 2003 Ford Expedition newest body change came out I waited to buy until 2004.
I was glad I did.
There were so many changes that would boggle your mind just to make a good product.
They can do that at their expense not mine.
I normally would agree with you but I was an OG NEX-3 buyer. I had wanted to get into photography for a long time but the expense and bulk of the DSLR's of the time did not interest me.

The NEX-3, although not a perfect system was the perfect idea of portability and image quality. I have enjoyed the progression of the system.
 

davect01

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Kevin Raber has some interesting points.

I'm not confident Nikon/Canon will be able to match the A7III out the door. But competition is good, because it encourages innovation and drives prices down.

Competition is always good.

My issue though is that mirrorless systems tend to get pretty pricey. As a prospective new photographer, it would be pretty hard to convince me to buy into a $3000 system when I can get a competent DLSR for $800.

Even now as an ardent mirrorless fan and advocate, the prices on the E-Mounts can get daunting and hard to justify. I love my $600 A6000. I also love the new A6500, but doubling the price is just not worth it right now.
 
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quezra

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Nikon is going to have a hard time shooting out the blocks because Sony's ace-in-the-hole isn't actually the A9, but the APS-C format. The volumes of sales are huge there, so they can split R&D costs over huge numbers (and their product lifetimes have gone through the roof), much of which then actually benefits the FF offerings which have much smaller sales volume. I don't think Z-mount and APS-C is going to make much sense when it is so huge. Maybe they think medium format is the way upward as they trend towards being a niche company given their corporate troubles.

Given Nikon's initial 3-native-lens offerings, unless they're throwing in the adapter free for Nikon DSLR owners, I'm struggling to see where the early adopter market will come from.
 

JonathanF2

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Nikon is going to have a hard time shooting out the blocks because Sony's ace-in-the-hole isn't actually the A9, but the APS-C format. The volumes of sales are huge there, so they can split R&D costs over huge numbers (and their product lifetimes have gone through the roof), much of which then actually benefits the FF offerings which have much smaller sales volume. I don't think Z-mount and APS-C is going to make much sense when it is so huge. Maybe they think medium format is the way upward as they trend towards being a niche company given their corporate troubles.

Given Nikon's initial 3-native-lens offerings, unless they're throwing in the adapter free for Nikon DSLR owners, I'm struggling to see where the early adopter market will come from.
I'll probably be getting a Z6. I still have my full Nikon lens kit and still prefer Nikon glass even over my Sony lenses. I see nothing wrong with their top down strategy.
 

TedG954

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I hope Nikon is very successful. Competition can only help the consumer. I'm not interested in getting the Nikon, but I believe it will inspire Sony and other 3rd party lens producers.
 

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