the future of SLT

Discussion in 'Sony Alpha E-Mount Cameras' started by gio, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. gio

    gio TalkEmount Veteran

    382
    Sep 12, 2012
    Manchester, uk
    I think it will be judged and live or die by the take up of the A99, I don't think the A99 will be very successful, especially in the pro market, the EVF may just prove to be what I initially thought, and that is a bonus for people moving up from compact and bridge cameras, as I've said on numerous occasions the NEX for me is an additional camera to complement my DSLR system, not to replace it, and although I use it more than the DSLRs because of it's convenience and fun,it will never replace mines.

    What are your ideas,hopes and aspirations on the future of the NEX, it seems to be just treading water now after a bright start.
     
  2. Nubster

    Nubster TalkEmount Veteran

    475
    Jan 5, 2013
    West Virginia, USA
    Chad
    Why is that? Image quality is as good as any mirrorless or DSLR on the market IMO and the NEX system, newer ones at least, are not the worst in AF tests that I have seen. From what I've read and watched on youtube reviews, the NEX cameras can go toe to toe with most of what's on the market right now and hopefully Sony will continue to put forth the energy into the NEX line to make it better. In my honest opinion, mirrorless systems are quickly catching DSLR's and will at some point match or even overtake them.
     
  3. gio

    gio TalkEmount Veteran

    382
    Sep 12, 2012
    Manchester, uk
    good comments.
    it's is probably a marketing thing, Sony seem to leave their NEX marketing to websites like this and youtube videos thus saving the cost of marketing themselves. When you get a head start like Sony did,they should be well over the horizon and out of sight by now, but they dithered on lenses and now there are a plethora of companies plying their trade in this market and competing very well with their offerings.
    Ultimately I think their AF speed will be their Achilles heel.
    As for catching up with DSLRs the numbers don't reflect that at all.
     
  4. Nubster

    Nubster TalkEmount Veteran

    475
    Jan 5, 2013
    West Virginia, USA
    Chad
    Yeah, coming from a Nikon D300, I am pretty disappointed in the NEX-6 AF ability, but I also knew that it would be lacking going in so I can't say that I was surprised. Other makers have shown that fast AF is doable in a mirrorless and I don't really see why it wouldn't be. Like I said, I just hope that Sony continues their efforts to refine the NEX and does something to remove head from butt and get things rolling so the line doesn't fizzle out. Once I commit to a system, I hate to change, but if Sony doesn't continue to improve with the rest of the field, I will. I really love the form of my NEX and I hate to have to move on, but I don't want to be left in the dust either. I guess the great thing is, with legacy glass, the jump to a new system is not as painful as it would be to go from something like a Nikon to a Canon DSLR system having to buy all new glass. I will say that for the time being, I am happy and can't really complain too much. I'll save that for the future if things don't progress as they should.
     
  5. Yohan

    Yohan TalkEmount Veteran

    325
    May 21, 2012
    Vancouver, BC
    Yohan
    I guess that statement is somewhat true, considering the mirrorless market is growing and there's an increasing number of competition. But I think Sony is doing more than "treading water" with the NEX system. The E-mount lens line up is steadily growing and it has third party support from Sigma, Tamron, and Zeiss as well. They've established beginner/midrange/advanced class of NEX cameras. I think Sony may be the class leader in the 5R and 6 price range. If you look at Fuji for example they don't have options for 400-800 price range. The upper echelon does seem more competitive with the E-M5, X-E1, GH3, and NEX 7.

    My wish (or daydream) for the NEX in the future is that they'll not only improve on their PDAF but also in their CDAF also. In good light, I have no issue with focusing with the 7. But may be the Sony-Olympus partnership will yield in some killer lenses and fast CDAF. Also, customizable Tri-Navi dials.

    edit: also a modestly sized OEM battery grip would be nice.
     
  6. nianys

    nianys TalkEmount All-Pro

    Aug 23, 2012
    France
    I'll give you my take on it. NEX has the great advantage of Peaking, and good marketing with RD muscle power behind. The only two other players offering Peaking are weaker (Pentax is niche and Ricoh even more so). The day the three big contenders in mirrorless Panny, Oly and Fuji get Peaking, NEX is in a tougher spot. Not so the m4/3 guys as there'll still be a chip size difference (though quite a bit of users will go there regardless for fast AF and lens line up), but the moment Fuji offers fast AF and Peaking (meaning, in a month of time), I think a lot of folks will go there. Sony had better crack the AF riddle NOW if they want to keep the advantage they had so far with legacy users. I love my NEX but believe it or not it's mostly THIS COMMUNITY (!) that keeps me shooting it. Give Fuji a X-E2 with fast AF and Peaking and as much as I love you guys, I'll come here to report and share my X pictures ...
     
  7. serhan

    serhan TalkEmount All-Pro

    Aug 27, 2011
    NYC
    I think mirrorless is here to stay. Sony is the new Kodak, see all the cameras that Roger from lensrentals is looking for upgrading from his m43, most of them are using Sony sensors and also he includes a few Sony nex cameras:

    LensRentals.com - Roger Buys a Camera System: Screening for Candidates
    LensRentals.com - Roger Buys a Camera System: So What’s This Going to Cost?

    Sony needs to improve AF and lens options for nex esp when the new full frame mirrorless is in the plans. I think they know that. Initially they weren't expecting the nex will be this popular with the dslr crowds...Sony is the camera for alternative lens shooters and it will be more attractive with the full frame release. Older slr lenses and rf lenses are smaller then newer dslr lenses.

    M43 AF and lenses are good enough for me to replace my Canon dSLR system. AF is more precise. I never carried my 100-400 on my trips, 75-300mm is one of the reason I will keep m43. They still lack on the good long primes that dslr systems have but m43 will be here to stay when they keep the lens sizes smaller. That is usually possible with Olympus with its stabilization in the sensor...

    We'll see how the Fuji will come with next generation on AF... The older lenses might be still slow as it happened in m43 cameras with panasonic 20mm lens... Faster af and peaking might make their system a very good option also. Competition is good for us...

    On the pro use Canikon have very good service centers that other manufacturers lack, not just the viewfinder or lens options...

    You can read Kirk Tuck's blog, he uses A99 and nex 7 for his pro work:
    The Visual Science Lab / Kirk Tuck

    He used to use m43, but I never read his blog until last week. He has a very good article about showing portfolios and the moral of the story from the pro reviewers are:

     
  8. xXx1

    xXx1 TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jan 15, 2013
    I have very little use of AF and have some quite nice old lenses so Nex is very good choice for me. I am seriously thinking to get 7 if price drops. That would solve my flash problems and I think that I wouldn't need more resolution ever. Full frame camera would be nice but probably will cost too much (and would need more lenses). One option for me is Pentax K-01. It won't replace Nex as it is quite big but most of my lenses will fit without adapter. Its AF may be even slower than Nex. K-01 sells for 300 USD in USA, unfortunately it sells for 700 euros in Helsinki.
     
  9. Chuck Lawson

    Chuck Lawson TalkEmount Regular

    140
    Nov 23, 2012
    Dallas area
    I've just started playing with an OM-D EM-5 in addition to my NEX-6, and there's a lot to like about it -- I particularly like being able to set maximum ISO, shoot 5 shot brackets, etc. If I could have that degree of control with the NEX's sensor size and focus peaking, I'd be a pretty happy camper.
     
  10. serhan

    serhan TalkEmount All-Pro

    Aug 27, 2011
    NYC
    From SAR, Sony financial results:

    Sony financial news roundup (E-mount sales increased!) | sonyalpharumors

     
  11. Nubster

    Nubster TalkEmount Veteran

    475
    Jan 5, 2013
    West Virginia, USA
    Chad
    That's interesting and makes sense. I can see the day when the point and shoot is no more, or at least they will be in very low demand. I mean the iPhone 4s and iPhone 5 have very good cameras as does the Galaxy phones. I'm sure others do too and I'd venture to say that anymore, unless they have an interest in photography, 99% of people under the age of 30 will reach for a cellphone to take pictures before they do a camera. Heck, probably people much older than that. I know I do at the age of 37. If I need a super quick low quality shot of something I'll grab my iPhone.
     
  12. olli

    olli TalkEmount Veteran

    318
    Aug 16, 2011
    Washington DC
    olli
    Except that quote doesn't distinguish between E-mount and A-mount. All it says is that interchangeable lens cameras are selling better - could be either, could be both.
     
  13. Simsy

    Simsy TalkEmount Regular

    141
    Dec 23, 2012
    I think the problem Sony has is brand loyalty no matter how good their cameras get 99% of existing photogs wouldn't change because of this. Personally the slow A/F thing is of no real consequence given that you will always get a cleaner focus with manual focus and the addition of peaking makes it quick and easy. The majority of sale I suspect is from new photogs upgrading the big question is how is Sony going to get a sizable portion of the existing DSLR owners to change brands.
     
  14. Nubster

    Nubster TalkEmount Veteran

    475
    Jan 5, 2013
    West Virginia, USA
    Chad
    I don't think they can. Nikon and Canon have too firm a hold on the DSLR market. I see people switching back and forth between those two brands, but rarely, never in fact, have I known anyone to switch to Sony from one of the other two. I do know people that have left Sony however for Nikon or Canon. I also know a Sony shooter that is very brand loyal and probably won't ever switch.

    Technically I guess I switched from Nikon to Sony, but I left Nikon DSLR for Sony mirrorless, so it's not really the same.
     
  15. xXx1

    xXx1 TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jan 15, 2013
    For professionals the question is very simple 'Will the equipment get the job done?'. That means for example what kind of lenses and flashes are available and can you get a backup body somehow if yours is broken. What equipment are your peers using. It is simply so much easier to stick the major two brands.

    Us hobbyists have completely different situation. I won't consider Sony DSLR as it doesn't offer many benefits over Canon or Nikon. I have some Pentax lenses so Pentax would be obvious choice. Nex is completely different point, excellent sensor and I can use all old lenses with it. It is small and light and so on.

    I think that future is with mirrorless and Sony has done many things right with Nex. ISO hot shoe from the start is may be their biggest drawback from my point of use. Nex is still work in progress
     
  16. olli

    olli TalkEmount Veteran

    318
    Aug 16, 2011
    Washington DC
    olli
    Years ago in the US people bought GM or Ford. Toyota and Nissan didn't take this market by building their versions of GM and Ford products - they brought something new to the table. Sony are trying to do the same. It's too early to say what the camera marketplace will look like longer term but once upon a time no-one believed that GM and Ford could lose out to upstarts like Toyota and Nissan.

    Also, it's good to keep in mind that while the North American market is a big market, it's not the only market and it's not the biggest market. North American camera buyers are a conservative bunch - they buy DSLR's and the buy Canon and Nikon. Elsewhere Sony, Panasonic, Olympus etc. are having a greater impact, particularly in the huge and expanding Asian market.

    Sony isn't trying to be just another alternative to Nikon or Canon (nor are Panasonic or Olympus). That Nikon and Canon are struggling to define their space and their product offerings in the mirrorless sector suggests that it's not just Sony et al that are facing new challenges.
     
  17. Mattithjah

    Mattithjah TalkEmount Veteran

    244
    Jan 17, 2013
    Czech Republic
    Matěj
    From my point of view, NEX (I really don´t know a lot about others mirrorles systems, like PEN, Pentax..) is suitable only for small range of photographic disciplines (AT THIS TIME). And not for most of the "professional" ones.

    If i dont count legacies:
    Landscape - partly ok (for hobbyist), there is a lack of long sharp but slow telephoto, like 70-300. Slow AF is ok... Good dynamic range of sensors! High resolution!
    Portraiture - partly ok (for hobbyist), there is a lack of good both cheap and expensive portraiture lens, like 85 1,8 and 1,4. Slow AF is not supebr
    Reportage, weddings.... - really bad, very slow AF and no fast zooms, like 17-55/2,8 and 70-200/2,8 ekv., no flashes...
    Sport - really bad. No fast telephoto lenses, no fast mid range zooms, no fast AF... Only good sensor.
    Wildlife photography - bad situation. No long fast telephoto, only legacy...
    Macrophotography - partly possible. Macrowork is possible with MF! :) But no good lightning system...
    Street - very capable with legacies!

    What remains?
    Snapshooting and home-child-pets-shooting..... capable!! As we can see on this forum :)

    There is a future of NEX in some disciplines, but some of them will be forbidden for NEX forever (on semi-pro and pro levels).

    Only point of view :)
     
  18. Nubster

    Nubster TalkEmount Veteran

    475
    Jan 5, 2013
    West Virginia, USA
    Chad
    There is a movement of pros going to mirrorless systems 100%. Completely getting rid of their DSLR systems. They are using Fuji's and Olys rather than the NEX however.

    It's just a matter of time. I know that my NEX-6 takes just as good pictures as my semi-pro Nikon D300 did. Right now the only thing lacking is fast, accurate AF and native lenses, IMO. The IQ and image quality is there no doubt. My guess is within two years, if Sony and the other makers stay full steam ahead, mirrorless cameras will be on par or exceed anything a DSLR can offer except maybe the top pro level bodies such as the D4 or Canon equivalent or whatever new pro body is out in two years. By that time, the limiting factor will be lenses, and even if they develop lenses that can allow the bodies to be used to their potential, the cost will put them out of reach for many non-pro/hardcore enthusiast shooters. Thank God for legacy lenses, but in two years, they will be outrageously priced too I'm sure.

    So in short, mirrorless and pros together, already happening. NEX and pro shooting, yeah, why not. A little refinement and the NEX will compete toe to toe with anything on the market I think (mirrorless).
     
  19. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    Really? There are more pros that I know that use a NEX-7 than either a OM-D EM-5 or some Fuji X-Pro or X-E1. I guess everybody buys what he likes - IQ is pretty similar on all these bodies.
     
  20. nianys

    nianys TalkEmount All-Pro

    Aug 23, 2012
    France
    Kirk Tuck is one hell of a successful professional and he uses a pair of 7's on a regular basis...