Sony APS-C RIP?

Discussion in 'Sony Alpha E-Mount Cameras' started by starmite, Sep 11, 2015.

  1. starmite

    starmite TalkEmount Regular

    40
    Dec 20, 2012
    With apologies to Mr. Poe, and to slightly paraphrase him, "The thousand injuries of Sony I had borne as I best could; but when it ventured upon insult (i.e., yet another full-frame camera upgrade announced today), I vowed full frame."

    I've patiently been waiting for a Sony upgrade to replace the APS-C Nex-7 (sorry, the A6000 wasn't), and in the meantime, Sony has clearly focused its effort solely on the full frame market. I'm slow, but I've finally gotten the message. Sony isn't really supporting the APS-C format any longer.

    Now, time to pick a full-frame, and rant over.
     
  2. davect01

    davect01 Super Moderator

    Aug 20, 2011
    Fountain Hills, AZ
    Dave
    This is a concern of many of us APS-C faithful. The NEX-6 and 7 were stellar and the A6000 improved upon them, with an amazing price. Then. . .



    Currently, I am more than pleased with the A6000, it does everything I need it to. I plan on using it for many years. The issue is what to do next. I have NO interest in a $1500-3000 camera, sorry Sony. If they don't do something else with the platform, I will have to go somewhere else. It is really sad, as I bought into the platform with the original NEX-3 and been a rabid fan ever since, buying four different bodies.
     
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  3. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Aug 6, 2011
    I'd be very surprised if Sony didn't continue to develop their APS-C line with upgrades like BSI sensors, IBIS, etc.

    They probably will focus more on FE lenses than APS-C lenses since the former can be used on both full frame and APS-C cameras.
     
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  4. robbie36

    robbie36 TalkEmount Veteran

    489
    Nov 21, 2014
    Still you cant help but have a degree of sympathy for APSC E mount users.

    The last APSC E mount lens that was introduced by Sony was over 2 years ago - August 2013. (I think that is behind every other camera manufacturer.) And while one can claim that Sony have introduced a bunch of 'FE' mount lenses that work equally well on an APSC 'E' mount body, they have only released one FE mount lens that costs less than an A6000 camera (28 f2).
     
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  5. quezra

    quezra TalkEmount Top Veteran

    916
    Aug 22, 2012
    The sad truth is that in a dual-format system (APS-C and FF), there are no good options for users in the smaller format. The economics of it just don't favor a split market, even for the giants like Canon and Nikon - if you're an APS-C user in those systems you either make do with FF lenses or (tons of) superzooms. If you really want to get all the best format-dedicated glass of the camera maker, you have to go with a single-format system. So if APS-C is your go-to format, then Pentax, Fuji, and Samsung are really your best bets.
     
  6. slothead

    slothead TalkEmount Top Veteran

    544
    Mar 1, 2015
    Maryland
    Tom
    I don't think I will ever get rid of my a5100 or a6000, so I wouldn't say RIP. The E-Mount lenses will still work with them (albeit bigger and heavier than needed), and the real reason I first bought my a5100 is for a very flexible astrophotography camera - and I don't think that will be affected by any decision by Sony not to make any more APS-C lenses. Anyway, I'm happy (and I've decided not to sell all my Nikon gear anyhoo).
     
  7. davect01

    davect01 Super Moderator

    Aug 20, 2011
    Fountain Hills, AZ
    Dave

    Agreed. It won't be years until I am looking to upgrade. My A6000 is here to stay for quite a while.
     
  8. southy

    southy TalkEmount Veteran

    370
    Feb 5, 2014
    Australia
    For those still dreaming of a replacement for the NEX 7 I think that ship has sailed. Unfortunately SAR keeps getting peoples hopes up with bogus rumours simple designed to drive hits on their website.

    As for the A6000 I have no doubt there will be an upgrade in the future and when it come it will most likely have most of the upgrades seen in the A7 series such as 4K and IBIS as well as possible more MP and an ever better AF again becoming the market leader for its segment.

    For lens the APSC line looks really good to me. If I went back to APSC I would get the SEL 10-18, Zeiss 24 1.8 and SEL 50 1.8. I sometimes wonder if these three lenses and an A6000 would even be a better option to my current A7 setup.
     
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  9. Jefenator

    Jefenator TalkEmount Top Veteran

    876
    Nov 23, 2012
    Oregon, USA
    Jeff
    I would presume a true NEX-7 successor would have to cost somewhere in the neighborhood of the $1200 I originally paid. I was glad to make that purchase in 2012, but now that the A7 series exists, for a serious workhorse body, I think it will make sense for many (certainly me) to just spend that little bit extra (or even save $200 with the original A7) and get all the IQ/noise/DoF benefits of full-frame.

    OTOH APS-C can still hit points of size, speed and cost that full-frame will never quite match (and IQ remains pretty darn good). I do hope Sony at least keeps a foot in the door with some cutting-edge mid-level bodies and maybe the occasional optic. (I would really, really like to see Sony offer something comparable to Canon's 22/2 pancake. Doesn't even have to be particularly cheap, just make it fast and small and sharp and I'll gladly mothball the EOS-M.)
     
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  10. southy

    southy TalkEmount Veteran

    370
    Feb 5, 2014
    Australia
    Zeiss 24 1.8? Not as small but faster, sharp as a tack, gorgeous colour and contrast and when you calculate crop factor, Canon 1.6 and Sony 1.5 less than a mm between them.
     
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  11. HabsFan

    HabsFan TalkEmount Veteran

    259
    Apr 10, 2013
    Ontario, CAN
    I think this would be what a lot of people would do. There will also be more full frame lenses in the future that are under $500 like the FE 28mm, especially if Sigma and Tamron and other start to produce Full frame E lenses. The biggest issue for me going to Full Frame is the lens price and to a smaller degree the lens size.

    On the APS-C front, there is a 24mm Sigma 2.8 Art that is rumoured to be released...if you believe the rumors.
     
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  12. soeren

    soeren TalkEmount Top Veteran

    658
    Dec 12, 2014
    N├Žstved, Denmark
    Soeren
    I'd like those Sigmas if they were just one stop faster. On my wishlist is a 12/2 like the samyang, a 60/2 or a tad faster and a 70/2 macro, all for APS-C only
     
  13. shotupdave

    shotupdave TalkEmount Regular

    114
    Jul 22, 2014
    Torrance, CA
    Dave
    if sony only goes to a highly expensive system, they are just shotting themselves in the foot. Yhere is a limited amount of consumers that will spend over 1200$ on a camera body. I think they are trying to make some inroads into the pro area and then will return to the base users with more inexpensive systems.
     
  14. Bill

    Bill TalkEmount Veteran

    339
    Oct 22, 2012
    Brisbane, Australia
    Bill
    I think even Sony was surprised by how well E-mount, full-frame has done in the market. They have been quick, however, to address what they must see as changed circumstances by putting their main efforts there. And, as they've been spectacularly successful, there is little chance of a change of that focus soon.

    At the same time, Sony does a good business in the APS-C, E-mount and I can't see them letting that business slip away. I'm sure they still see it as a feeder into full-frame. But as a feeder line, they can't allow it to compete with the full-frames (as it probably did against the A-mounts).

    Innovation will be in E-mount, full-frames, and that will trickle down to APS-C. With the most recent advice about the A7sII, I think this is about the time we'll start seeing some of that trickle down.

    I still have my NEX-7 (and the Sigma trio). It's a perfect travel kit. I always hoped that there would be a full-frame, E-mount rangefinder-style successor. But with the stabilisation they've packed into the A7 line, I happy with the A7 series form factor.

    APS-C is here to stay. It's just not the prettiest girl at the dance any more.
     
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  15. Amamba

    Amamba TalkEmount All-Pro

    Apr 13, 2013
    SE MI
    The cost is just one part of the equation. Size is another. Every FE lens I've seen looks rather large.

    The biggest threat to Sony comes from Canon and Nikon. After many years of ignoring APS-C mirrorless, Canon finally came out with a decent body - not even close to A6000 yet in terms of performance, but at least not a deliberately limited one like the original EOS M was. I'd say it's about on par with F3 in terms of features (tilting LCD, available external EVF, built-in flash). And Canon, like no other camera maker, is in position to flood the market with high quality and reasonably priced lenses - if they chose to. Their 11-22 is already very nice and half the price of 10-18. 22/2 has great reviews. Add a dozen or so lenses of equal quality and value, and the Sony superior sensor will no longer be a clear choice (most of that superiority is in DR and if I had to sacrifice some DR but get a sharp, optically excellent $350 11-22... not an easy choice). And the thing with CaNikon is, people buying their entry level gear progress to intermediate gear and some progress to pro level (FF) gear and very few look at competition. So giving up this segment of the market would be a dumb decision.

    I am not giving up on Sony, and will pick up an A6000 body when they get really cheap (otherwise I'm fine with Nex-6). But some Sony APS-C lens categories are either overpriced or a compromise (e.g. 10-18 vs 16+UWA, or the entire standard zoom line). At some point, if they continue to abandon the segment, the grass may just get greener on the other side.
     
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  16. Hawkman

    Hawkman TalkEmount Top Veteran

    943
    Sep 10, 2013
    Virginia, USA
    Steve
    I don't think Sony has abandoned APS-C... yet.
    Even though I just made the plunge on an a6000 on sale, I do still believe (ever the optimist) that the rumored and mythical a6000mkII/a6100/a7000 is still coming. My guess - based as it is on the plethora of mistaken rumors coming out of SAR this year, and one statement IIRC by a Sony exec after the A7ii release that they did indeed plan to bring IBIS to APS-C - my guess is that Sony may have bitten off more than they could chew with the a6000 follow-on. Perhaps they tried to pile in a BSI sensor, and 4K video, and IBIS, and tried that in a small a6000-like body, while shooting for a body-only price under US$1000. Tall order. I also still say that putting the sensor from the a6000 (or some updated version thereof) in the body of an A7Mk.II would be nearly... perfect for a flagship APS-C model. But again, what do I know?

    And I also think that it is perfectly understandable that Sony would focus on full frame in bodies and especially in lenses over the last two years. Sure, I'd like to see an E-mount version of the SAL1650 (a constant f/2.8 standard zoom), and an affordable 24mm f/2.8. But Sony can only engineer so many lenses at one time, and right now it is clear that FE is the more pressing need for them and for the system in general.

    :coming down off tiny soapbox:
     
  17. ggibson

    ggibson TalkEmount Regular

    154
    Sep 1, 2011
    This question has been on my mind when contemplating picking up an A6000 or the upcoming successor. Their lens lineup has the basics covered, but without any more upcoming lenses, it makes it hard to buy into the system.
     
  18. Bill

    Bill TalkEmount Veteran

    339
    Oct 22, 2012
    Brisbane, Australia
    Bill
    I think Sony agrees with you. If you want a "system," they want to get you into the full-frame E-mount system.

    If, on the other hand, you want a kit that gives you DSLR quality but in the size and price range of Micro Four-Thirds, then an A6000 (or whatever is coming) will do nicely.
     
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  19. Jefenator

    Jefenator TalkEmount Top Veteran

    876
    Nov 23, 2012
    Oregon, USA
    Jeff
    I've been curious to try micro 4/3, but for a current A7 user there is definitely a case to be made for sticking with a setup that allows you to swap lenses and batteries.
    The APS-C can make a good "gateway" system. I recently talked a friend into trying mirrorless - he couldn't justify an A7 but the A5100 was perfectly doable. Now he's in the intermediate stages of LAS (Lens Acquisition Syndrome). Not sure where this will ultimately lead but it doesn't bode well for his marriage. ;)
     
  20. slothead

    slothead TalkEmount Top Veteran

    544
    Mar 1, 2015
    Maryland
    Tom
    Jefenator,
    My path has taken me through a number of configurations (Mu43 being one of them). From Nikon DLSRs I moved to an Olympus OM-D E-M5 and a few of the smaller Mu43 cameras (never surrendering the Nikon DSLRs) and then to the Nikon mirrorless (called Nikon 1), which ended temporarily, and after that discovered the a5100 (which I still have and love), but that a5100 got me into an a6000 and the A7 series, which I now have two of (R, RmkII). I have since acquired two more Nikon 1 series cameras, and have never really fully surrendered the Nikon DSLRs (I still have the D750). I have wasted so much money it is crazy (you never recover what you invested in new cameras unless they become collectors items), but learned an awful lot along the way. It has been great fun (but the wife doesn't always agree unless it is for pictures of the grand kids).