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Some Help Needed

Discussion in 'Adapted Lenses' started by bobbill, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. bobbill

    bobbill TalkEmount Regular

    172
    Oct 27, 2017
    Being past film shooter who went digital. I figured to use one of my el-Nikkors on my 6300, so I bought what I figured would be easy adapter with helicoil movement so I could focus the lens, Lens is for enlarge, and has no focus.

    Well, the el-Nikkor is a LTM mount, and figured all I needed was LTM adapter that had ability to move or focus.

    I found one on eBay and, I thought. But, it appears the adapter is a Leica M to e-mount.

    I figure if I can locate adapter M to e-mount, it should work. I did not know M mounts came in a variety of sizes...

    The thread diameter of the M mount is 31mm, Is such an adapter available?

    Thanks.
     
  2. AlwaysOnAuto

    AlwaysOnAuto TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Feb 17, 2015
    My Leica M mount is a bayonet type of mount.
    LTM = Leica Thread Mount
    To mount my Leica lenses that are LTM on my Sony I put a Leica LTM to M mount adapter on them and use this adapter:
    IMG_0054.JPG
    Canon PowerShot SD1000    ---    6mm    f/8.0    1/60s    ISO 80

    I don't think this is what you're looking for if you need a helicoid to adjust focus though.
     
  3. newst

    newst TalkEmount Veteran

    315
    Aug 20, 2014
    Troy, MI
    Steve New
    I am not sure what adapter you need. I don't know which manufacturer used a 31mm screw mount. However, in my experience, the source with the greatest range of adapters is a Chinese company named Yeenon. They make a huge range of different esoteric adapters, not only the common variety stuff. they use quality materials with precision engineering. The downside is that they aren't inexpensive.

    They sell a lot of items on their Ebay store yeenon china | eBay Stores but if you don't see what you need I would contact them, as they may make what you need but just don't have it listed.
     
  4. bobbill

    bobbill TalkEmount Regular

    172
    Oct 27, 2017
    I received the helicoided adapter from a Chine firm. The adapter has no lettering. The box is marker "LM-NEX" they sent the below pic with noted measurements.

    The eBay offerings for LTM to LM seem to vary in diameters. I was under impression the M mounts were all the same...M42, and so on, so when I encountered the odd sizes I was surprised. Rather than return the adapter, I was hoping to find a simple LTM to what ever the one is in the pic...and be done with it. Maddening, it is. View attachment 88792
     
  5. newst

    newst TalkEmount Veteran

    315
    Aug 20, 2014
    Troy, MI
    Steve New
    The names that you are referring to, M42, M39, M25 etc. are not generally identified as 'M' mounts in photography. They are generically referred to as 'Thread Mounts' because they use a screw thread. The designations refer to the size of the thread, M42 = 42mm diameter thread, M39 = 39mm diameter thread etc.
    'M' mount is generally reserved for Leica's current bayonet mount design, that they have been using since the 1950s.

    This is what an 'M' mount looks like at the camera end.
    metabones_mb_lm_e_bt2_leica_m_lens_to_1249882.
    And this is what an 'M' mount looks like from the lens end.
    vglndr-leicam-pro-03_large.
    If your lens doesn't look like this at the rear then it isn't an 'M' mount and you need to look for something different.

    For completeness sake this is what an actual LTM to M mount adapter looks like.
    Voigtlander_45BD209A_M_Bayonet_Adapter_Ring_for_191966.

    It might help if you posted a photo or so of the lens you are trying to mount.
     
  6. bobbill

    bobbill TalkEmount Regular

    172
    Oct 27, 2017
    Appreciate the info and response...I understand. I understand the LTM mounts are M39 and understand the M42 and the L mount bayonet.

    What I do not understand are some adverts for adapters LTM Leica Thread Mount (very popular) to M, with varying metric diameters.

    What I need is an adapter that will let me use an el-Nikkor lens with NEX...that is, colloidal LTM to NEX adapter...Or, adapter to screw in LTM adapter into above pictured "LM" adapter to NEX. Maybe a Taiwan scammer.

    Here is quote from eBay listing:

    "Front mount: Leica M mount female

    Rear mount: All Sony E mount cameras, Such as NEX3 5 6 7 5N 5T a6000 etc.

    It offers a total of about 5mm movement distance for lens focusing.
    Instruction, mount the Helicoid tube to your lens, and then the combination of lens and Helicoid tube to the camera.
    This Helicoid tube is useful for those lenses without focus ring."

    Except the thing does not fit as described.
     
  7. newst

    newst TalkEmount Veteran

    315
    Aug 20, 2014
    Troy, MI
    Steve New
    First, you probably know that your EL lens is an enlarger lens, not a camera lens. I don't have a clue what the back-flange distance is for such a lens but I am sure that it isn't the same as for a Nikkon camera lens. I don't think any Nikon/Sony adapter will help you.

    I suggest you get one of these: Leica Leitz M39 LTM screw lens adapter to Sony E mount cameras NEX 5R 5T 5N 6 7 | eBay Strictly an LTM to Sony helicoid. If your lens really has an M39 thread this should connect it to your camera. It is a minimum risk at $7.99 and free shipping.

    I suspect though that once you have the lens mounted you will need something like a macro extension tube to move the lens far enough from the sensor to focus.
     
  8. bobbill

    bobbill TalkEmount Regular

    172
    Oct 27, 2017
    Thanks, Newst. Yes it is an el-Nikkor...which all have LTM...what I need is something like I thought I bought: a LTM colloidal to NEX adapter...which allows focusing of the enlarger lens...if I could adapt the one I received, it would be clover...only problem is the screw mount diameter, as the pic shows, is too wide for the LTM mount...waht is goofy is for the life of me I cannot understand what the thing was made to fit, unless was a production mistake.
     
  9. newst

    newst TalkEmount Veteran

    315
    Aug 20, 2014
    Troy, MI
    Steve New
    It looks to me that someone mis-identified the adapter you bought, either through ignorance or malice, and placed it on Ebay. I would try to get my money back from the seller if I were you. 36mm is not and never has been LTM/M39.
     
  10. AlwaysOnAuto

    AlwaysOnAuto TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Feb 17, 2015
  11. bobbill

    bobbill TalkEmount Regular

    172
    Oct 27, 2017
    As I figured and thanks. Return in progress. And, fortunately, seems the seller reimburses return costs...in time.

    I believe some colloidal adapters are made...I have 3 el-Nikkor enlarger lenses, so will just have to be patient. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
  12. WNG

    WNG TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 12, 2014
    Arrid Zone-A, USA
    Will
    Note, as a correction...LTM is NOT M39. M42, etc. refers to M=metric (1.0mm thread pitch); 42mm diameter. M39 is not to be confused with LTM which sometimes is referred to as L39. LTM uses a 0.75mm thread pitch, not the 1.0mm thread pitch of M39. Aside: there are some Russian lenses IIRC, that came with M39 AND LTM.
    M42 mount is NOT M-mount as mentioned above.

    I think from reading your previous posts, that you made some incorrect assumptions that has compounded your issues and frustration.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. bobbill

    bobbill TalkEmount Regular

    172
    Oct 27, 2017
    You are correct. I read a number of comments here and there that equated the LTM and the M39, in error...you make perfect sense. And I do recall the Soviet rendition is far different. Thanks much.
     
  14. bobbill

    bobbill TalkEmount Regular

    172
    Oct 27, 2017
    Well, anal me got a bit ticked and kept searching...after sending goofy item back...spendy mailing...anyway
    I found I could acquire an M42 to M42 helicoid adapter ring and an LTM to M42 and then a M42 to NEX adapter. Obviously, adapter to camera, lens adapter to adapter, LTM el-Nikkor into lens adapter...so far seems "kewl!" Ya think?

    If so, then a lot of stored el-Nikkors will be making lots of dues happy and this short thread will help them narrow down their anxieties.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  15. leemik

    leemik TalkEmount Rookie

    20
    Mar 17, 2014
    You must be new to adapting lenses. Enlarger lenses like your el-nikkor are very different beasts to adapt. Although they are all mostly M39 thread, you cannot just use a Leica M39 helicoid adapter to make them work as you have found out. Although the M39 thread is a standard thread on the many enlargers some are different as well like M25. The flange focal distances vary wildly. I believe to get my el-nikkor 50/2.8 enlarger to focus at infinity on my Sony A7R, I had to use an M39 to M42 adapter and then mount it to a 17-13mm M42 helicoid and then finally a M42 to sony THIN adapter. All of your el-nikkor enlargers if they vary in focal length will require some thing different.

    You might be better off finding a bellows to mount the el-nikkors if you are new to this.

    good luck
    --mike
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. bobbill

    bobbill TalkEmount Regular

    172
    Oct 27, 2017
    Gee Mike, I thought it would be easy...I know the thing is LTM, and the sellers say the helicoidal mounts offer infinity focus, and now will have to do more research...I have three el-Nikkors, the 50, 75 and I think 80...wide apertures. Thought I was so smart...well what else is new? I have a few Nikkors, so maybe it is a waste, but was enamoured with flat, sharp and low cost.

    Thanks for help...
     
  17. bobbill

    bobbill TalkEmount Regular

    172
    Oct 27, 2017
    Added thought. I redid some research, and ask:

    If I have a ltm-to-m42 ring adapter, which fits to a m42-to-NEX helicolidal adapter that focuses to infinity or more...what could be a problem?

    Just curious about my logic.
     
  18. newst

    newst TalkEmount Veteran

    315
    Aug 20, 2014
    Troy, MI
    Steve New
    If you don't mount the lens at the proper back-flange distance you won't reach infinity, or possibly be able to focus at all. Whichever setup you finally decide on has to place the lens at the proper distance to the sensor. It doesn't matter what your adapter is capable of, if it is too short, or too long, it won't work.

    Do you know what the correct back-flange distance for your lens is? If not, you can get an estimate by free lensing the lens. For example, if you can get in focus when holding the lens about an inch from the body mount then you know your adapter needs to hold the lens somewhat short of an inch from the body and then extend to something more than an inch from the body. The setup you describe may be too short to work or too long to work. If you don't know the lens' back-flange distance the only way to answer your question is to put it together and test it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. bobbill

    bobbill TalkEmount Regular

    172
    Oct 27, 2017
    Steve, I understand what you mean, I think...but, my Zuiko 1.8/48 works as fine as my flange-critical 1.8/50 Nikkor. I figure as long as the image is larger than the sensor, all will be fine...as is the case...or am I goofy? I believe some non reversed el-Nikkors are used often...I am confused.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  20. WNG

    WNG TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 12, 2014
    Arrid Zone-A, USA
    Will
    gOOFY! :D 

    Your assumption that the M42-NEX helicoid adapter provides infinity focus will solve the LTM lens' requirement is incorrect. That helicoid adapter is spec-ed for M42 lenses and preserves the register distance for M42 lenses. Not any other lens you may happen to slap in front of it. In this case, an LTM. Just because you've screwed an L39 lens to a flat M42 adapter doesn't transform it into a M42 spec lens. All you did was change the diameter of the thread mount, but the LTM lens' distance requirement to the sensor/film plane hasn't changed. Not one LTM camera lens would infinity focus in your above setup, as LTM camera lenses have a register distance less than M42.
    An enlarger lens with an LTM threading doesn't mean it shares the register distance of a LTM camera lens. This distance for EL-Nikkors must be researched. If its within the tolerance of travel of your helicoid setup, then you get infinity focus, to whatever minimum focusing distance the helicoid can provide.

    This is why a bellows is recommended in adapting enlarger lenses, as it has inches of travel to experiment with. Longer lengths can be compensated for with cheap M42 extension rings. But if the distance is less than the M42 helicoid adapter, then you must go back to the drawing board and start over.
    Usually, one starts with the most shallow E-mount adapter, either C-mount or a flush M42 thread-E mount adapter 'plate'. If you can source a L39 shallow helicoid to M42 adapter, this will give you the shallowest option.

    BTW, image larger than sensor assumption is not a guarantee of focusing success. For example, hold a large diameter magnifying glass close to your eyes, and nothing is in focus. It's definitely covering 'the sensor', your eye....but the distance from your eye is critical for proper use.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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