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Sharpness/detail and anti-aliasing filter - why not get rid of all AA filters?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Armanius, Aug 30, 2011.

Top Rated
  1. Armanius

    Armanius TalkEmount Regular

    188
    Aug 8, 2011
    Houston Texas USA
    It goes without saying that there is direct correlation between sharpness/detail and anti-aliasing filter. The Leica M8/9 apparently do not have AA filters, and therefore, are capable of rendering lots of detail. The recent Oly Pens are said to have weaker AA filters. My experience with the older Pens like the EP2 and the Sony NEX3 is that their images do appear to be softer than the M8/9 and my Panasonic GH2. My basic understanding of AA filters is that they prevent moire. But in looking at the images taken with my M9, I often never noticed any moire. Or at least nothing significant that jumped out at me and made me wish the M9 had a AA filter.

    All of this being said, why are camera manufacturers still using AA filters?? If I'm a camera manufacturer, I want my camera to be able to capture maximum detail. So why not just get rid of it altogether?
     
    Armanius, Aug 30, 2011
    #1
  2. Armanius

    Armanius TalkEmount Regular

    188
    Aug 8, 2011
    Houston Texas USA
    I guess AA filters is a boring topic! :)
     
    Armanius, Sep 2, 2011
    #2
  3. Djarum

    Djarum TalkEmount Rookie

    24
    Sep 1, 2011
    Huntsville, AL
    Armanius,

    Antialiasing is somewhat complex, so I'll try to give you the simple version.

    Basically, a sensor is trying to record an image with both low and high frequency spatial information. What I mean by high frequency is that the information has really fine detail, for example. If the sensor is recording part of an image that has higher detail than the sensor can really resolve, nasty things start to creap into that part of the image. That part of the image is undersampled. An AA filter is a low-pass filter for resolution. The stronger the AA filter, finer detail gets smoothly blurred out at the cost of losing maxiumum resolution. On the other hand, the weaker the AA filter, the greater the resolution, but the higher chance that artifacts such as Moire will creep in.

    For example, weak AA filter:

    Olympus E-PL1 Review: 7. Resolution Test: Digital Photography Review

    Stronger AA filter:

    Olympus E-P1 Review: 17. Photographic tests (RAW): Digital Photography Review

    As you can see, the E-PL1 starts to show moire artifacts at around 2400 lph, but it has overall greater absolute resolution vs the E-P1. Looking at the E-P1, which has less overall absolute resolution, doesn't have the nasty moire as resolution increases. Instead, the lines smoothly blurr together.
     
    Djarum, Sep 2, 2011
    #3
  4. Travisennis

    Travisennis TalkEmount Veteran

    209
    Aug 7, 2011
    Jasper, Indiana
    Djarum, thanks for that explanation. I think it was the first time I really understand the advantages and tradeoffs of an anti-aliasing filter.
     
    Travisennis, Sep 3, 2011
    #4
  5. Promit

    Promit TalkEmount Rookie

    17
    Sep 1, 2011
    There are cameras that exclude the AA filter entirely. Leica X1 comes to mind.
     
    Promit, Sep 3, 2011
    #5
  6. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther TalkEmount Veteran

    473
    Aug 9, 2011
    Then there's the film option....:)
     
    RT_Panther, Sep 3, 2011
    #6
  7. Armanius

    Armanius TalkEmount Regular

    188
    Aug 8, 2011
    Houston Texas USA
    I guess that's my point. It sure seems like most users tend to rave about the details a sensor is capable of on cameras that have weak (or no) AA filter. It sure seems logical then that manufacturers would lean towards that direction. In had a M8 briefly, and that camera yielded some of the sharpest photos I've seen, more so than the M9.

    Thanks for the great explanation DJ!
     
    Armanius, Sep 16, 2011
    #7
  8. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    1,568
    Aug 6, 2011
    Oversampling prevents aliasing, so the cameras with the highest pixel densities have less need of AA filters. I think that 24MP for APS-C and 16MP for Micro 4/3 are in the range where I'd rather get rid of the AA filter and deal with aliasing when it pops up, but this is a matter of personal preference.
     
    Amin Sabet, Sep 16, 2011
    #8
  9. Djarum

    Djarum TalkEmount Rookie

    24
    Sep 1, 2011
    Huntsville, AL
    I haven't seen images from that camera specifically, but I wouldn't take pictures of anyone wearing certain ties or shirts that would give a moire effect. It's all about balance. I think the E-PL1, for example, gives a good balance.
     
    Djarum, Sep 16, 2011
    #9
  10. Djarum

    Djarum TalkEmount Rookie

    24
    Sep 1, 2011
    Huntsville, AL
    Well, then we can get into under sampling because of the lenses. But yes, if the lens is up to it, removing the AA on higher megapixel cameras would be the way to go.
     
    Djarum, Sep 16, 2011
    #10