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Recommendations for a good Sony Flash and Sony/3rd Party Wireless Triggers

Discussion in 'Accessories' started by ilovehatephotography, May 30, 2014.

  1. ilovehatephotography

    ilovehatephotography TalkEmount Regular

    153
    May 30, 2014
    Los Angeles, CA
    Ed
    Hi everyone, I recently switched over to E-mount from EOS and am still trying to figure everything out. I'm looking for (1) a native Sony flash and (2) affordable wireless triggers that is either Sony or 3rd party.

    I like the size of the HVL-F20 flash, but I think it is a little underpowered for my needs. On the other hand, I keep seeing overheating complaints for the HVL-F60M flash, so I want to stay away from that as well. What options does that leave me?

    As for wireless triggers, I used Yongnuo wireless triggers on my 5D Mark II and they were fabulous. Reliable, accurate, maybe a little battery hungry. But I can't seem to find Yongnuo wireless triggers for the Sony A7, or at least I'm not sure if it is applicable. E-TTL is important to me, so triggers or flashes that are manual won't do. Got any recommendations?
     
  2. rtex42

    rtex42 TalkEmount Regular

    68
    Jun 14, 2013
    Houston, Texas, USA
    Rick
    I have a HVL-F43 that I find works pretty well for my needs. I mostly use it for macro in manual mode but the TTL and other modes work well.
    I don't have a wireless setup yet but will probably go with a cheap manual one when I get one (not much help to you there ).
     
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  3. ilovehatephotography

    ilovehatephotography TalkEmount Regular

    153
    May 30, 2014
    Los Angeles, CA
    Ed
    Nice. Thanks for the tip. I'm still trying to figure out all of the model numbers for Sony accessories. Is the HVL-F43 mid-range? Is the larger the number the higher in the range? (even though the 60M overheats and is unreliable)
     
  4. stephen431

    stephen431 TalkEmount Regular

    112
    May 2, 2014
    My understanding is the 43 in the F43m model number is the flash guide number.
    HVL-F20M has a guide number of 20. HVL-F60M has a guide number of 60. Etc.

    It's also my understanding that the F20 can act as a wireless trigger for other, newer model Sony flashes.
     
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  5. ilovehatephotography

    ilovehatephotography TalkEmount Regular

    153
    May 30, 2014
    Los Angeles, CA
    Ed
    Oh nice, that's handy to remember. Thanks. Now if only I can figure out what all those letters mean.

    Wireless trigger yes, but not via radio. It's either infrared (requires line of sight) or old-school where the flash is the trigger itself. I'm thinking in terms of a pocketwizard or a similar brand.



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  6. José De Bardi

    José De Bardi Assistant in Virtue

    Aug 31, 2013
    Dorset, UK
    José
    HVL is the prefix for all Sony flashes/video lights, not sure what it stand for

    F just means basic flash (specialised flashes have other prefixes, like MT for Macro Twin on the HVL-MT24AM)

    M is multi shoe mount (AM is for auto lock mount like the Nex7 and S for Smart Accessory Terminal like Nex 3/5)
     
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  7. ilovehatephotography

    ilovehatephotography TalkEmount Regular

    153
    May 30, 2014
    Los Angeles, CA
    Ed
    I was talking about these units. They are fantastic and affordable, but I'm not sure if it is compatible with Sony

    [Edit: Nope, not compatible with Sony flash mounts right now. Going to ask my strobe-expert friend who recently got a A7 and report back here.]

    ImageUploadedByTalkEmount1401551789.998301.



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  8. ryanlio

    ryanlio TalkEmount Regular

    26
    Mar 13, 2014
    As far as I know. . Only pixelkings n phottix does ttl. Hope it helps..

    Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
     
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  9. ilovehatephotography

    ilovehatephotography TalkEmount Regular

    153
    May 30, 2014
    Los Angeles, CA
    Ed
    That's what I was afraid of. Their units are transmitter or receivers only but not both right? Any personal experience using them? I know pixelkings are quite reliable


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  10. Dan Euritt

    Dan Euritt TalkEmount Regular

    191
    Jan 11, 2014
    the HVL-F20M is not hss-capable, which i believe means that it won't be usable above 1/250th(?) on your a7.

    phottix odins radio triggers are what people seem to like for our cameras, in part because they are supposed to work well with hss:

    http://www.amazon.com/Phottix-Odin-Flash-Trigger-Sony/dp/B009Q817A4

    however, notice the shoe configuration, it's not the new shoe that's on your camera, so there are hoops to jump through.

    the flip side might be that you can use a few select older flashes with that shoe???

    http://www.mhohner.de/sony-minolta/flashes.php

    for me, the column marked "hss" is the most important, but you may not need it.
     
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  11. michelb

    michelb TalkEmount Regular

    195
    Oct 27, 2013
    Greater Montreal area in Quebec, Canada
    Michel Brien

    Before investing in any Radio trigger, please check the following forum with issues of Phottix Odin with A7R and adapted lenses:

    http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/phottix-odin-no-ttl-with-manual-lens_topic106976.html

    I am the one that tested A7R with multiple combinations of adapted lenses/flashes with no/limited success

    For these to work well, you need: OEM lenses or Alpha mount adapted through LA-EA4 ( or 3 or 2 or 1 on APS-C). Any adapted lenses without data exchange through lens contacts to the body will just not work either in TTL/Manual.
     
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  12. michelb

    michelb TalkEmount Regular

    195
    Oct 27, 2013
    Greater Montreal area in Quebec, Canada
    Michel Brien
    After re-reading your post:

    HVL-F20M is of more use to me as optical (native Sony/Minolta) Wireless trigger.
    HVL-F43M ( NOT the AM version which would require an adapter called ADP-MAA) can also be used as optical trigger but with more Advanced features ( ratio and groups among them)
    HVL-F60M is similar to 43 but with some extra power. It only overheats when used in rapid succession for over 15-20 flashes ( probably high powered) within a couple of minutes)

    To mount any of the above on either Phottix Odin or Pixel King TTL remote triggers/receivers (the only ones i know of as of now), you will need an ADP-AMA adapter for each flash/receiver set and and ADP-MAA for the camera/trigger connection.

    The 3 above flashes could also control as optical TTL any Minolta 3600HS(D) or 5600 HS(D) or Sony HVL-F36/42/43/46/58AM flash. However these have the now older Minolta /Sony iISO shoe and will require the same ADP-MAA adapter if used on camera but would mount directly to the Phottix Odin's or Pixel Kings ( i don't have Pixel King so i can't talk much about them if used with adapted lenses).
    You would then only need a single ADP-MAA adapter for the camera/trigger connection

    Like i mentioned in my previous post, if you get the Phottix Odin, your Leica lens won't allow any reliable TTL or manual control. I don't know about the Pixel King's.
     
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  13. Dan Euritt

    Dan Euritt TalkEmount Regular

    191
    Jan 11, 2014
    thx for posting that! not good news at all... from one of the other threads:

    "... I suddenly realized that even in Manual power level, the Odin actually makes the flash ignite the TTL pre-flash. This is really a frustrating element i did not realize prior to purchase"

    that behavior is contrary to how things work when you use the f60m on the a7r... with the flash in manual mode, there is no preflash, and you can set the flash output manually, on the flash itself.

    even in manual mode, the f60m can be triggered at any shutter speed, via hss.

    if those things don't work right, it's a disaster.
     
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  14. ilovehatephotography

    ilovehatephotography TalkEmount Regular

    153
    May 30, 2014
    Los Angeles, CA
    Ed
    A big thank you to all you Sony strobists for helping this guy try and figure out the flash situation. Let me see if I can summarize what I understand from all of your posts and the linked dyxum.com forum post.

    1. High Speed Sync (HSS) Limitations
    HVL-F20M is not HSS-capable. This is a big issue for me as well, since I use flash mostly during the daytime.

    2. Adapted Lens have No (or Limited) Success with the Phottix Odin (or other radio triggers as well??)
    This was tested on the A99 with a Rokinon lens. michelb confirmed this issue on the A7R, Nex-7, HVL-F60M, HVL-F56AM, Minolta MC Rokkor , 24mm MC Rokkor, tamron Adaptall-2 90mm macro. The issue persists. The problem seems to be that manual lenses on adapters without electronic contacts are not sending information to the radio triggers, described as follows:"It simply seems that with "release w/o lens" enabled, when a manual lens is mounted on (no contacts whatsoever), Odin does not transmit TTL information from the camera to the flash. As simple as that." - gabriel.mihu on Dyxum.com. This is a huge issue for me. Ideally, I would be using the trigger with any of my lenses, 2/3rds of which are adapted MF lenses with no electronic contacts. Other radio triggers may or may not have the same issue.

    3. Hotshoe Adapters may be needed for Phottix Odin or Pixel King TTL remote triggers/receivers using the older Minolta hotshoe design.

    Am I understanding this correctly? It's all fairly confusing!
     
  15. ilovehatephotography

    ilovehatephotography TalkEmount Regular

    153
    May 30, 2014
    Los Angeles, CA
    Ed
    Okay, I have a specific follow up question. I just paid for a studio shoot with a local photography club on meetup.com. It's next week and we will be sharing studio strobes and a Paul C. Buff Cybersync trigger.

    My understanding is, this radio trigger may or may not work on my Leica summaron. But, the setup should have no problems with the Zeiss 55mm FE lens correct? It'll be a shame to show up to the studio all eager and be let down by a compatibility issue.

    This is the A7's hotshoe in case anyone was wondering:
    ImageUploadedByTalkEmount1401851198.882590.


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  16. Dan Euritt

    Dan Euritt TalkEmount Regular

    191
    Jan 11, 2014
    same here, the f20m is useless for me as well... people like it because it's really small, and it can be used as an optical wireless trigger.

    you can confirm the lack of hss capability on the mohner page i posted.

    this is apparently a very recent development, as in, just the last couple of weeks or so, it hasn't hit the other forums yet... very discouraging.

    correct wrt the phottix odin, for sure, i haven't checked the pixel kings... to top it off, the ADP-MAA is out of stock just about everywhere right now.
     
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  17. ilovehatephotography

    ilovehatephotography TalkEmount Regular

    153
    May 30, 2014
    Los Angeles, CA
    Ed
    If we think about this logically, a MF lens and/or a lens adapter without electronic contacts just isn't sending aperture-size information to the camera right? (well focal length too for a zoom).

    On my 5D Mark II, I had a MC Porst Color Reflex 55mm f/1.2 lens for the Pentax K mount that I jerry-rigged onto the Canon. It was a very inexpensive adapter but it had electrical contacts. It would trick the camera into thinking the lens was always at f/1.2. I don't recall problems using that MF lens with the Canon + Yongnuo wireless triggers + ETTL.

    Doesn't this seem like the issue can be overcome with firmware? Either on the camera side or on the wireless trigger side? I don't know if any of your were Nikon shooters, but I suspect Nikon shooters had dealt with this issue before, since a lot of them use legacy or 3rd party MF lenses.
     
  18. ilovehatephotography

    ilovehatephotography TalkEmount Regular

    153
    May 30, 2014
    Los Angeles, CA
    Ed
    I just had my friend test his radio trigger set up.

    ImageUploadedByTalkEmount1401855077.685583.

    Haha


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  19. pworden

    pworden TalkEmount Veteran

    325
    Aug 26, 2013
    State College, PA
    Patti
    Interesting topic. I understand about 50% of it :) So, here's a quick question that you can probably answer easily - will this likely work on my a6000 with SAL100M28, LA-EA2, but with the phottix odens trigger? Here's the link to this inexpensive, light solution I'm looking at: http://photofocus.com/2012/09/30/low-priced-high-performance-lightweight-canon-macro-flash-set-up/
    Maybe even with the Yongnuo trigger I already have? I've never used TTL - not sure if I'd use it for the type of running-around chasing insects macro that I like. Currently, I use a Polaroid Ring Flash that often doesn't produce enough light, or my Yongnuo which causes too much shadow or is just positioned wrong for macro. I might go for two flashes in this setup. If any of you know off-hand, that's great. I'll continue to check on it in any case. Thanks.
     
  20. Dan Euritt

    Dan Euritt TalkEmount Regular

    191
    Jan 11, 2014
    cool bracket, it should make flash positioning easy... i want one!

    the a6000 has a maximum 1/160th shutter speed for flash use... quicker than that, you have to use hss mode... no yongnuo flash has sony hss capability, so it will only flash reliably up to 1/160th on the a6000? you should be able to test it, if the yongnuo has the right sony shoe on it.

    the phottix odin can't make a non-hss-capable flash work in hss mode, because the flash simply isn't capable of doing hss in the first place.