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Opinion, about teen arrested for photographing mall takedown

Discussion in 'Street and Documentary' started by freddytto, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. freddytto

    freddytto TalkEmount All-Pro

    Dec 2, 2011
    Puebla, Mexico
    what you guys think about this?
    B.C. teen arrested for photographing mall takedown - British Columbia - CBC News

    I read this article and has given me head spin, I would not want to happen to anyone of us who walk in the street, in the malls, I remember that one of us had some problems and confrontation with a security guy, for some shots, I think it is happening more often.

    But I disagree with that, they often abused their power and cross the line of respect, demanding the deletion of photos, but was a film, so he can´t did, so was arrested,as far as I know, it is perfectly legal to take photos of anyone or anything in a public place, here in NYC I do, maybe they did something wrong and is the basis of guilt. If you've done nothing wrong, the photos mean nothing.

    what you think guys?
     
  2. WoodWorks

    WoodWorks Super Moderator

    Dec 12, 2012
    Ashland, OR, USA
    David
    Aye, there's the rub. A mall is private property, and at least in the U.S. (dunno about Canada), the security guards had a right to stop the kid from photographing anything.

    Having said that, the way they went about stopping him was beyond outrageous. Clearly, the kid was doing absolutely nothing wrong, and this unwarranted paranoia about anyone with a camera just makes my head explode.

    David
     
  3. applemint

    applemint TalkEmount Veteran

    245
    Sep 20, 2012
    In the UK the position regarding security guards is this (I looked it up after the incident with security on Monday night):

    "Security guards
    Unlike police officers, security guards have no powers to stop and search. They are members of the public, and as a result they can’t obstruct you from taking pictures if you’re standing on public land, nor can they ask you to delete any shots.

    Anyone who demands you should, and uses threatening behaviour, could be committing assault.

    Similarly, if they use force to take your camera or memory card then not only could they commit assault, but also the civil tort of trespass to goods and trespass to person. If they withhold your camera or memory card then it’s theft and a criminal offence."

    However you can be asked to stop taking photographs if on private property (like a Mall) and they have the right to ask that and to remove you from the property if you refuse.

    There was an incident in Edinburgh a couple of years ago involving security in an upmarket shopping street - but as it was a pedestrianised private street/ thoroughfare (open 24/7) rather than an enclosed mall it was considered a bit of a grey area: Photographers get apology as Multrees Walk bosses admit security at fault | Edinburgh | guardian.co.uk
     
  4. markoneswift

    markoneswift TalkEmount Veteran

    390
    Oct 17, 2012
    It's a mine field really - I was going to take some snaps in my local mall ( shopping centre for you UK people ) of the very nice Christmas decorations but then I thought twice about it as there a LOTS more security patrols this time of year and it IS private property that is OPEN to the public ( there's the difference, I think ).

    In the Amateur Photographer magazine recently, there was an article relating to a guy who was asked to stop taking photos by a person dressed as an elf ( !!! ). This was at a Council organised 'Christmas light extravaganza' and the guy was told the Council have clear guidelines about taking photos at Council-run events. They quote child protection issues as their main reason for bannnig 'amateur' photographers. I say that such organisations should ask everyone to put their smartphones into a bucket before entering such shows or malls, as for everyone one person with a 'proper' camera there are 100 snapping away with their phones. Are the organisations banning photography, or a particular type of camera ? I took my NEX and 500mm lens to a concert recently where photography was 'banned', but after showing the door staff the little NEX they said 'that's fine, you won't get much with that anyway'

    7509969702_bc5411a0bb_b.
    Manchester Arena 2012 - Roxette by markoneswift, on Flickr

    I beg to differ :)
     
  5. applemint

    applemint TalkEmount Veteran

    245
    Sep 20, 2012
    Well you can get into trouble for taking photos on the street if you do so in a suspicious manner (whatever that means):
    [video=youtube;hAUan2DXBsk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAUan2DXBsk [/video]

    However to be fair to the police they can also be brilliant:
    [video=youtube;FJH9F7Hcluo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJH9F7Hcluo [/video]
     
  6. Dioptrick

    Dioptrick TalkEmount All-Pro

    Feb 4, 2012
    New Zealand
    I took a point and shoot camera with me to a venue when Toto came to New Zealand for a one-night only concert. I took about two shots (with flash) and the ushers were onto me. I actually didn't know at the time that cameras aren't allowed. The security people were firm but polite tho... no photos please they said. I can respect that so I put my camera away and enjoyed the rest of the concert. I suppose the flash can be distracting for the paying public. Pity I didn't have my NEX then, I could've taken great shots without any flash and no one would've known.

    toto02.

    What a terrible grainy shot, lol! I should've been arrested for bad photography, haha!
     
  7. markoneswift

    markoneswift TalkEmount Veteran

    390
    Oct 17, 2012
    It's insane - at the Roxette concert, people were flashing away with point n shoots and smartphones ( with the very distracting large LED displays glaring away ) but they didn't get scrutinsed at the 'bag check' at all. Far more distracting for the band than me and my NEX ( with NO flash, I'm a pro dontcha know lol )
     
  8. freddytto

    freddytto TalkEmount All-Pro

    Dec 2, 2011
    Puebla, Mexico
    amazing photo came out, well, that's what people do not know the potential of the little Nex.
     
  9. freddytto

    freddytto TalkEmount All-Pro

    Dec 2, 2011
    Puebla, Mexico
    lol, I agree :eek:
     
  10. Dioptrick

    Dioptrick TalkEmount All-Pro

    Feb 4, 2012
    New Zealand
    I think it had to do more with imaging rights come to think of it. There was an official pro-photographer taking shots up close with a DSLR and he's the only one allowed. May have something to do with promoter's legal contracts and stuff.

    I'm an ol' fan of Roxette btw... bring back the hair-flicking, boot-kicking power-ballads I say!

    Judging from your beautiful pics, looks like she hasn't lost her figure! I on the other hand... well...
     
  11. markoneswift

    markoneswift TalkEmount Veteran

    390
    Oct 17, 2012
    Well she was pretty skinny from what I could see from way back - her face looked well rough though on the big monitors :)
     
  12. ChangshaNotes

    ChangshaNotes Super Moderator

    Aug 15, 2012
    China
    Colin
    Security guards behaving like asses? Hardly shocking news but the kid pushed them.

    The security guards told him to stop. Right or wrong, they believed they have the power to do that.

    What does he do?

    "Markiewicz said he turned to leave the mall and then snapped a second shot as RCMP arrived."

    That's like saying FU to the security guys. (which it seems he also apparently did later) Security guards that are all keyed up after making what seems to be a physical kind of arrest.

    It wasn't very clever of him. He had his shot, had he shown some respect he probably would have just been able to walk out of the mall.

    Now I'm not defending the guards. Within their rights or not, they behaved deplorably but the kid did photographers no favours in that mall.

    Some people invite abuse, it's almost impolite not to give it to them. :p
     
  13. Zipzap

    Zipzap New to TalkEmount

    5
    Dec 9, 2012
    Inasmuch as the security guards had the right to ask the kid to leave and not take any more photos, they had no right to even touch him or even detain him. Their actions appear to be a clear-cut case of assault and forcible confinement, both of which are criminal offences in Canada. Now, if the security guards had been sworn in special constables and granted powers of arrest, (and in Canada, private security guards are only rarely given such authority) the situation would have been totally different. Technically, the guards had the right to effect a citizen's arrest, but the law clearly says that only a minimum amount of force may be employed unless life or property is endangered. I doubt the courts would countenance a full-blown arrest being undertaken for simple trespass in which no harm was done to anyone. The usual process is for the cops to hand out a summons (i.e. a ticket) and send the offending party on their way.

    Good security staff have the ability to control their emotions and not escalate things even in the face of non-violent acts that appear provocative. From the sounds of it, the guards were not in control of their emotions, not acting professionally and certainly not operating in good faith - in other words, appearing to be the stereotype of maladjusted people who are wanna-be cops but have to settle for jobs as security guards because they don't qualify to join a police force.

    The kid in question, inasmuch as he may have committed an act of trespass, probably has a good chance of being able to charge the security guards with assault and maybe pursuing civil damages for any injuries he might have sustained.

    That's my two cents, although this is not legal advice, I am not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV. :)