NEX-C3 puts my GX1 on the shelf (temporarily)

[kevistopheles]

I like my GX1. It's a terrific camera and my PL25 and PL45 are superb lenses. That said, I also like my C3 and in some ways I find the NEX+legacy lenses a bit more satisfying to shoot with. I am not choosing to abandon my GX1 and go all NEX because quite frankly I don't need to. I think they compliment one another quite well. That said, I recently went to the zoo and the museum of flight and both times took the NEX instead of the GX1 forgoing AF and many of the niceties the GX1 brings to the table. Both times I was surprised how well going all MF with the NEX worked out. So I decided to put up my GX1 for the rest of September and go all manual focus on the NEX (meaning no Sigma 30 either). I know I used to do this with my Konica compact RF and Olympus OM cameras but its been a while.

It should be fun. I'll come back and post thoughts about it as well as photos.

 

[pictogramax]

I have seen your images and previous posts and I believe you'll do quite fine. I have been MF only with my Nex3 for more than five months now and it is definitely possible - surely there are times when AF would be handy, especially while chasing kids, but it's still doable with a bit of prefocusing and anticipation.

At SC forum we had a monthly challenge in May for which I chose not only to be strictly MF, but also to go with just my Minolta 45mm f2.0 lens. It went well, especially since we were shooting by the predetermined themes. It is liberating to have a single combo you know well and just focus on actual image-taking. Here are a few samples from that month-long session (all can be seen in my Flickr set: http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/sets/72157629966544279/with/7143250795/):

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/7263243870/" title="LIGHT by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26194"640" height="432" alt="LIGHT"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/7179348914/" title="SONG by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26195"640" height="433" alt="SONG"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/7003824026/" title="CHIAROSCURO by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26196"640" height="640" alt="CHIAROSCURO"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/7236597632/" title="GOOD LIFE by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26197"640" height="434" alt="GOOD LIFE"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/6997163800/" title="MOSTLY ONE COLOUR - NOT BW by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26198"433" height="640" alt="MOSTLY ONE COLOUR - NOT BW"></a>

 

[kevistopheles]

I have seen your images and previous posts and I believe you'll do quite fine. I have been MF only with my Nex3 for more than five months now and it is definitely possible - surely there are times when AF would be handy, especially while chasing kids, but it's still doable with a bit of prefocusing and anticipation.

At SC forum we had a monthly challenge in May for which I chose not only to be strictly MF, but also to go with just my Minolta 45mm f2.0 lens. It went well, especially since we were shooting by the predetermined themes. It is liberating to have a single combo you know well just and focus on actual image-taking. Here are a few samples from that month-long session (all can be seen in my Flickr set: http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/sets/72157629966544279/with/7143250795/):

<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/7263243870/" title="LIGHT by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26199"640" height="432" alt="LIGHT"></a>

<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/7179348914/" title="SONG by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26200"640" height="433" alt="SONG"></a>

<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/7003824026/" title="CHIAROSCURO by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26201"640" height="640" alt="CHIAROSCURO"></a>

<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/7236597632/" title="GOOD LIFE by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26202"640" height="434" alt="GOOD LIFE"></a>

<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/6997163800/" title="MOSTLY ONE COLOUR - NOT BW by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26203"433" height="640" alt="MOSTLY ONE COLOUR - NOT BW"></a>

Thanks. Those shots are absolutely gorgeous. I saw that challenge and had been thinking a lot about how it would be to go with a single combo. There is much to be said about knowing your tools that well. That Minolta 45/2 is giving you wonderful results. I have never used any Minolta lenses. I'll have to try one of those. I love it's compact size.

 

[pictogramax]

Thanks! I can sincerely recommend Minolta's 45mm - it's smaller than usually cited 50mm 1.7 and not much slower glass. I just love Rokkor smooth rendering and great feel of focusing and aperture rings. Well worth a try for someone into MF.

I see you put your Sigma 30 on sale. I'm tempted for the compactness and convenience of AF, but still waiting to see if there will really be an 35mm 1.8 OSS at Photokina. If not, or if it sky rockets in price out of my league (which is likely), maybe we'll talk again

 

[nianys]

With you guys here. My (much beloved !) GX-1 has seen no use ever since the NEX got here (even though I have many gripes with the dumbed down interface of the 5N, and am now eyeing a 7). The IQ is great and getting back the DOF control I've been used to is priceless (being an FF shooter, m4/3 was really, really limiting). The m4/3 gear is going on ebay/Craig's List today. I got the 18-55 for convenience (the combo is no bigger than the GX-1 with 14-45), and started playing with manual primes. I'll get the SEL 50 and 35 later, but for now MF is quiet and slow process that I truly enjoy. The GX-1 has very, very good IQ, and I had no gripe with detail, sharpness, noise or DR, but the limited DOF control bothered me from day 1. I'm now really excited to pick up the camera and get better and more consistent at MF. If only Sony could snatch a few UI specialists from Panasonic, that'd be just perfect !

 

[kevistopheles]

I have to say the thought has crossed my mind that if I sold the GX1, PL25, PL45 and P14-45 I could grab a NEX 7 (or perhaps the new 5r or 6 and money left over). I'm not quite ready to make that jump yet but the longer I have the NEX the closer I get. Personally I think the difference in IQ between m43 and NEX is pretty significant. I know the E-M5 is supposed to be the latest thing since sliced bread but it just does not appeal to me and I can't imagine the E-M5's IQ is that much better than the GX1 or GH2 (both of which I have/had) and IMHO neither of those comes close to the NEX image wise. Maybe I'm seeing what I want to see but to my eyes the NEX just looks better.

 

[eno789]

Thanks for sharing those awesome pictures. I got to use my 45mm more.
OTOH, while I agree that NEX has better IQ, I don't think it's to the extent that one would not be able to get shot like that with m43.
It's more about the vision and person behind the camera. It's also about using the right tool for the job (APS-C has the advantage of dynamic range and shallow DoF, while m43 deeper DoF is good for landscape and macro).
I'm quite happy with my 5N and m43 cameras, they should last me a while. I hope I can hold off the next purchase for the full frame NEX.

 

[kevistopheles]

Thanks for sharing those awesome pictures. I got to use my 45mm more.
OTOH, while I agree that NEX has better IQ, I don't think it's to the extent that one would not be able to get shot like that with m43.
It's more about the vision and person behind the camera. It's also about using the right tool for the job (APS-C has the advantage of dynamic range and shallow DoF, while m43 deeper DoF is good for landscape and macro).
I'm quite happy with my 5N and m43 cameras, they should last me a while. I hope I can hold off the next purchase for the full frame NEX.

I agree with you. The photographer makes the camera and not vice versa. I have never really felt that the IQ on my GX1 (or any of my other various m43 bodies) was lacking but I do prefer the images I get from the NEX. Part of that (for me) is using manual focus. I like the process and I think it suits me. I never particularly liked using manual focus on m43 (with or without an EVF) and the 1.5 crop factor on the NEX means I get a bit more useable effective focal lengths (again for my needs). It's really a personal preference thing.

 

[nianys]

I think it all boils down to how paramount DOF control is to you. To me, it's the number one parameter that floats my boat. I understand it is not the case for everybody, but I demand that it's my right to feel that way, and assess my cameras that way, too.
I, like many others, went to mirrorless (from both APS-C and FF) for improved portability and renewed inspiration thanks to the use of manual lenses (so many to learn, so many to try and chose from, so much challenge not relying on automatism but testing oneself as a photographer). And I have no real desire to go back to a DLSR (though I still own one, and will feel lust for the coming D600), but I do want to be able to control DOF as much as possible, and the APS-C sensor in the NEX allows me to do so MUCH better than the m4/3 chip in the GX-1. I know the m4/3 dogma (that no one must stray away from) is that there is very little difference of DOF between APS-C and m4/3, almost to the point of being unrelevant. Nothing is farther from the truth. The very first thing that litterally shocked me when I first shot the NEX (after 6 months of m4/3 use) is how much thinner DOF was at equivalent setting. Of course I was instantly addicted.
So sure m4/3 is an excellent format with many great things about it, and I have a super soft spot for the GX-1 (especially when paired ith the PL25), but DOF control isn't one of them, and as a portrait shooter it bothered me from day one.

 

[kevistopheles]

I know the m4/3 dogma (that no one must stray away from) is that there is very little difference of DOF between APS-C and m4/3, almost to the point of being unrelevant. Nothing is farther from the truth. The very first thing that litterally shocked me when I first shot the NEX (after 6 months of m4/3 use) is how much thinner DOF was at equivalent setting. Of course I was instantly addicted.

I hear you

 

[RT_Panther]

Then there is the Foveon that is smaller than an APS-C but larger than a Four Thirds sensor....

 

[kevistopheles]

I like the Foveon sensor. I think it produces very nice looking images.

 

[oylo]

Is it possible to tell us how you make the 3. picture? I liked that.

 

[Dioptrick]

... for which I chose not only to be strictly MF, but also to go with just my Minolta 45mm f2.0 lens. It went well, especially since we were shooting by the predetermined themes. It is liberating to have a single combo you know well and just focus on actual image-taking

I do this all the time too, I really like to do this... to go out with ONLY ONE lens - legacy glass and manual focus of course.

Specific focal lengths require a different tempo, a different way of thinking and a different way of approaching certain subjects. I enjoy the challenge of observing the environment surrounding me, spot a composition, then most importantly find the right spot to stand so that when I raise the camera to my face, the viewfinder displays the same composition I had envisaged without having to relocate. So it is not just the challenge of manual focusing, but also learning to use my eyes to view and imagine things in a specific focal length. I find the exercise to be very satisfying... and yes, liberating like you said.

Fantastic sample pics btw!

 

[oylo]

I do this all the time too, I really like to do this... to go out with ONLY ONE lens - legacy glass and manual focus of course.

Specific focal lengths require a different tempo, a different way of thinking and a different way of approaching certain subjects. I enjoy the challenge of observing the environment surrounding me, spot a composition, then most importantly find the right spot to stand so that when I raise the camera to my face, the viewfinder displays the same composition I had envisaged without having to relocate. So it is not just the challenge of manual focusing, but also learning to use my eyes to view and imagine things in a specific focal length. I find the exercise to be very satisfying... and yes, liberating like you said.

Fantastic sample pics btw!

This I agree completely in.
And the experience one gets through work with manual lenses is good to bring along even when one only has auto lenses available.

 

[pictogramax]

Is it possible to tell us how you make the 3. picture? I liked that.

Of course, but only to admit that I just got incredibly lucky

I was trying to get a shot for the prompt AIR, so I kept blowing dandelions held in my left hand, at the same time trying to catch them with aperture wide open with camera in my right hand. Once my daughter was exhausted from laughing at my acrobatic efforts, she agreed to help me. Among 30 or so additional tries, by pure luck or by blessing from above for my perseverance, I got the gem we are talking about. But I decided to keep it for the prompt SONG, as it kept starting Lennon's tune "Imagine" every time I looked at it.

The shot I picked for the AIR in the end is this:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/7146651791/" title="2012 05 05 - AIR by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26209"433" height="640" alt="2012 05 05 - AIR"></a>

 

[pictogramax]

And just an additional note. I completely agree that these could have been taken with different cameras and lenses for sure. If you like your Konica's, just enjoy them, of course. Or whatever else

I was more about how a single lens can in fact be liberating, and not restrictive. And how still you can get very different shots, regardless of a single focal length.

A few more (and diverse) samples from the same challenge:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/7179144406/" title="NEGATIVE SPACE by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26210"432" height="640" alt="NEGATIVE SPACE"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/7236593510/" title="SUMMERTIME by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26211"640" height="640" alt="SUMMERTIME"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxjaguar/7143250795/" title="2012 05 04 - PATTERN by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr">View attachment 26212"433" height="640" alt="2012 05 04 - PATTERN"></a>

 

[kevistopheles]

I am finding that I quite like my Vivitar 28/2 Close Focus. I think if I were to choose one lens to go with for an extended period it would be that one or my Konica 24/2.8. They both provide a nice "normal" range and yet each can close focus to about 6-8 inches. It makes for a lot of creative flexibility. My Pen-F 38/1.8 comes in a close second.

With the Vivitar...
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"1024" height="681" alt="The Hangover"></a>

 

[eno789]

I think it all boils down to how paramount DOF control is to you. To me, it's the number one parameter that floats my boat. I understand it is not the case for everybody, but I demand that it's my right to feel that way, and assess my cameras that way, too.

Right before photokina, we have rumors flying around there will be a FF NEX soon. Using all the MF lenses in its 35mm glory would be a dream come true.

 

[Luiz Curcino]

What caused me to sell my GH1 was the question of 2x crop factor ... My wide angle lenses become normal: one 28mm goes to 56mm! Outside the issue of image quality to be better at Nex5N ...