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New Sony Lenses -- interview on new Tech

Discussion in 'Sony Alpha E-Mount Lenses' started by WT21, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. WT21

    WT21 TalkEmount Top Veteran

    610
    Aug 7, 2011
    on SAR and DPR there is an interview with Sony about the new lenses.

    As much as I might gripe about size and cost, they got me with new tech, lol. I'm interested in learning, even if I can't afford them!

    Motoyuji Ohtake interviewed by Dpreview and IR: GM Lenses are made for future High Res cameras. | sonyalpharumors

    DPR direct link is here
    'We want to make lenses that can be used forever': Sony engineer discusses G Master lenses

    The last not on the SAR post has a cryptic comment on APS-C lenses

    At least it makes you feel like the price is justified!
     
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  2. pbizarro

    pbizarro TalkEmount Veteran

    349
    Nov 24, 2014
    Portugal
    In short: if you want lenses designed for higher detail (50 lpmm), plus more optical control on aberrations, you get large, heavy, and expensive lenses. Nothing new really:)
     
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  3. davect01

    davect01 Super Moderator

    Aug 20, 2011
    Fountain Hills, AZ
    Dave
    Sony is really trying to appeal to the Pros. While out of my price range, it is good to see.

    Sent from my SM-N920P using TalkEmount mobile app
     
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  4. WT21

    WT21 TalkEmount Top Veteran

    610
    Aug 7, 2011
  5. WestOkid

    WestOkid TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jan 25, 2014
    New Jersey, USA
    Gary
    While this is great for the overall system, they really do nothing for me. In fact, I'm disappointed. Not because I don't desire them, but because I can't afford or justify paying that much to support a hobby. I am actually shocked there are so many people excited about $2000 lenses. I thought I made a decent living, but apparently not.

    I think Sony is reshaping the e-mount system right before our eyes. It's steadily becoming a high-end enthusiast to pro system only. Just look at all the recent articles that involve quotes from Sony execs. They all talk about how they have seen great enthusiasm for high-end mirrorless. They even talk about the success of the EM1 and XT-1 in one article. When pressed to discuss APS-C or affordable options, you get vague talking points like the one in this article. That's simply to allow the dreamers to keep dreaming. The thing is this actually makes sense from a corporate standpoint, so I don'y blame Sony. More and more people are content with using cell phones as primary cameras. So the consumer pool is shrinking rapidly. How do you make more money with less customers? You look to increase profit margins and Sony is doing just that.

    If you consider Sony's recent quarterly report ( http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/fr/15q3_sony.pdf ), it shows unit sales down and profits up. They point out this was due to shift to high margin devices. When you couple that report with the latest offerings $1000 APS-C camera, A7SII, A7RII and large $2000 lenses, clearly they are not concerned with Joe consumer. They are not even concerned with the things that initially made mirrorless appealing; size and weight. The last generation of Sony offerings have all grown in size and weight, while their DSLR counterparts have gotten smaller and lighter. Last batch of Sony lenses are mostly the same size or larger than their DSLR counterparts. They also now market using third party lenses with an adapter, further negating any size advantage. To me it's obvious, there is a different target audience for Sony these days. People who say otherwise are not basing it on anything that has happened in the last 2 years.

    I know I am putting a damper on things, but I really don't get it. I feel like I bought a Honda for it's price/performance ratio and MPG. Eventually, I go back to dealer a few years later looking to get a new car only to find out that all they sell are expensive gas guzzlers. They are all really nice, but I am relegated to a window shopper. I know I can keep driving my existing car or buy used one in a few years, but why stay loyal to them when they didn't stay loyal to me?
     
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  6. WoodWorks

    WoodWorks Super Moderator

    Dec 12, 2012
    Ashland, OR, USA
    David
    I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, Gary. None of the new lenses appeal to me in any way. My 24-240 is big and heavy, but at least it offers some versatility. These new lenses are all just about as big and heavy, and will likely offer some IQ gains, but at an extremely high cost. Add up the cost and the size and the weight, and I've lost interest. If I were making my living off of photography, maybe I would consider them. But I don't, and so I won't.

    Here's my hope: If by releasing this kind of gear Sony manages to entice a lot of pro photographers away from Canikon, then maybe Sigma, Tamron, et al. will finally think about developing some interesting consumer-grade lenses for the FE line of cameras.

    Either way, I'm no longer interested in shooting APS-C, and no other FF system comes close to what my A7II offers me. Maybe there's a Loxia 21 in my future. But otherwise, I'm in a holding pattern.
     
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  7. WT21

    WT21 TalkEmount Top Veteran

    610
    Aug 7, 2011
    I have started thinking that I might be left behind.

    The low end went to phones, and the high end seems to be chasing bigger bodies and lenses at high cost

    Is there enough market left in the middle to attract a good vendor? I know I'm a dinosaur, but I thought (or hoped) there were enough dinosaurs like me to keep some vendors attention, but maybe not?

    Maybe a Canon entry into the middle of the market would keep Sony honest?

    Methinks us hobbyists didnt realize how spolied weve been the last about 7 years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
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  8. Hawkman

    Hawkman TalkEmount Top Veteran

    939
    Sep 10, 2013
    Virginia, USA
    Steve
    While I understand how you feel Gary - the lack of new APS-C lenses, and especially new "affordable" ones, remains a concern for me as a "budget" APS-C user - I am not sure I feel abandoned yet. It does seem clear that Sony is focusing on the higher-end, higher margin products. I think this is both a corporate business decision and a customer-driven one. And by customer-driven I am referring to Sony's apparent courting of pro photographers. Much of what they have released the last two years - particularly with the A7Rii and these new GM lenses - seems targeted at wooing high-end enthusiasts and pros who have been requesting faster telephoto zooms for sports, a fast, sharp portait lens for portrait work, and a faster autofocus capability to compete head-to-head with high end DSLRs.

    But I agree that Sony seems to have focused too much on that at the expense of the entry-level and mid-range consumer who wants quality - but perhaps not the very top, premium precision stuff - at an affordable price. And by affordable with respect to lenses, I think of something that is not at least twice the price of the body, and preferably less.

    While we each could name several lenses that we covet that are not available in E- or FE-mount, those lists may not overlap much as we each have different needs and wants, and we cannot expect Sony to meet every need and want. It is important to remember that other camera makers that make both sub-FF and FF lenses (i.e., Canon and Nikon - are there any others still/yet?) have APS-C lines that are more limited in certain respects compared to the FF lines. The APS-C lines target more of the basics - a few decent primes from wide to short telephoto and zooms covering wide, standard and telephoto ranges along with a couple all-in-one zooms. Then the FF lines duplicate these for FF and add the higher-end "niche" wide, fast and long ranges. Sony is likely adopting this same approach, which explains why the APS-C line has seen so little attention since the launch of the A7 series.

    Nevertheless, I do think there are some general gaps that still cry out to be filled. A fast standard zoom would be welcome on the APS-C side (my coveted 16-50/2.8), as would a longer macro (say a 60/3.5). I would expect that any longer telephoto primes, like 100, 135, 200 and up, would come in the FE line, not APS-C, as they often do in other systems.

    But in the FE line itself, there remains a dearth of truly "affordable" lenses. In fact, there are only three (if my count is correct) lenses that are not premium G, GM, or Sony/Zeiss units: the original 28-70 kit zoom, the 28/2 prime, and the 24-240 all-in-one zoom. What stands out to me as lacking here is... an FE "nifty fifty"! Where's the 50/1.8 for just a couple hundred bucks that every other system seems to have? And we know Sony can make one - see the SEL50F18 for APS-C that is both sharp, fast, and under US$300. Some would point to the SEL55F18Z, but as a Zeiss-designed lens, that is hardly in the "affordable" camp I'm thinking of.

    I would venture that when we finally see a "nifty fifty" affordable, fast, standard prime FE lens, that will let us know that Sony hasn't forgotten those just starting out or pinching their pennies.

    And speaking of pennies, that's just my two pence worth. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
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  9. WT21

    WT21 TalkEmount Top Veteran

    610
    Aug 7, 2011
    Not disagreeing, but it brings up some random thoughts:

    m43 has better lens selection across price points, maybe because there isn't a "higher system" to push you towards. Man, if they could just get a better sensor, the size/lens selection is where I want to be

    If had known mirrorless was just going to amount to maybe a 50% reduction in body slimness, but the same size lenses, perhaps I should have just stayed with Canon? But on the other hand, the live view and EVF is sweet.

    Size comparisons:

    Compact Camera Meter
     
  10. davect01

    davect01 Super Moderator

    Aug 20, 2011
    Fountain Hills, AZ
    Dave
    There is still the A5000 series available for those looking for a cheaper E-Mount body.

    The A6000 spoiled us with the price/features.

    I will probably buy the A6300 at some point, just not right now.

    Sent from my SM-N920P using TalkEmount mobile app
     
  11. Hawkman

    Hawkman TalkEmount Top Veteran

    939
    Sep 10, 2013
    Virginia, USA
    Steve
    I know what you're saying. But it seems like the whole "get a smaller camera" pitch for mirrorless was just the initial hook. Once you are in and understand the physics of optics, if the sensors are the same sizes as the DSLR sensors (APS-C and 35mm "Full Frame") then the lenses inevitably will be similarly sized.

    I remember back in 2010 when the first NEX cameras came out, I sort of dismissed them when I saw how big the first few lenses were - the 18-55 and especially the 18-200 - seemed to dwarf the little NEX-3.

    The hook now really is the benefits that not having a flipping mirror allows... remind me, what are those? ;)
    Oh yeah, live view and EVF... and a somewhat smaller body. Oh, and short flange distance that enables lens adaptability!
     
  12. davect01

    davect01 Super Moderator

    Aug 20, 2011
    Fountain Hills, AZ
    Dave
    Sony clearly want us to use FF lens.

    Sent from my SM-N920P using TalkEmount mobile app
     
  13. SpaceManSpiff

    SpaceManSpiff TalkEmount Top Veteran

    547
    Dec 13, 2013
    Tucson, AZ
    Eric
    Really interesting discussion, here.

    As someone who likes old, well-crafted things I bought into the Sony e-mount system because they had the best implementation for manual focus of alt lenses. While I strongly considered buying a Nikon D750 --I eventually discounted it because of the shutter speed being limited to 1/4000sec, and like all DLSRs not being great for manual focus. In the end, the nod went to the A7ii for the EVF and WYSIWYG experience and IBIS.

    Sony's latest offerings are clearly aimed at professionals, not enthusiasts...which is fine as long as they don't soley focus on the pros and abandon/alienate the people that made their mirror less cameras popular. While surely excellent lenses with cool tech, that 70-200 f/2.8 is going to be north of $3k, and $2k for the other two is just too salty for my taste! I might be able to occasionally stretch myself for a $1k lens if it has a stellar reputation (like the FE55) but only then. When the FE28 came out, I voted with my wallet as I felt it offered just the right kind of price/performance and build that the FE system should be headed towards. I have been hoping for an f/2 portrait prime in the 85-105 FL in the same vein as the FE28 but so far no dice.
     
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  14. NickCyprus

    NickCyprus Super Moderator

    Oct 11, 2012
    Cyprus
    Nick
    Totally agree! Great words Gary. I think Sony is slowly loosing the public that believed in the MILC system and made it so popular and if that trend continues then I'd make a big damage to Sony in its competition with Canikon and Fuji etc (I know the numbers don't show that yet). Sony seems to be abandoning this crowd unfortunately and for me the recent a6300 announcement but also the 3 new FE lenses announcement proves just that :(

    Even if I doubt it, I do hope that someone from the Sony headquarters is reading these threads now...
     
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  15. nidza

    nidza TalkEmount Regular

    120
    Nov 1, 2013
    Serbia
    Wait a minute...

    This is normal market strategy to first offer expensive products with big profit margin. Who can't wait will buy these expensive lenses. Who can, he should. With these lenses they show what are they capable off. Similar to other industries, most expensive models go first, to return investment as fast as they could, while mid range models arrive later.

    Don't doubt that 28/2 will not get accompanied by few more primes, 50/55 and 85 at least, with f/2 or f/1.8. Difference in terms of IQ can be very small between 1.4 and 1.8 versions, while price difference can be significant.

    To be honest, I am tempted by the 85/1.4. All other lenses don't need to be that perfect, but 85 could worth as an investment for minimum next 10 years. In that light this price doesn't look that significant. Plus, such a lenses do not depreciate.
     
  16. Mus Aziz

    Mus Aziz TalkEmount Top Veteran

    563
    Sep 3, 2015
    Mus
    My sentiments too! :(
     
  17. NickCyprus

    NickCyprus Super Moderator

    Oct 11, 2012
    Cyprus
    Nick
    It's not like Sony started the e-mount system yesterday though...
     
  18. nidza

    nidza TalkEmount Regular

    120
    Nov 1, 2013
    Serbia
    I mean on FE mount.

    Tapatalk
     
  19. WestOkid

    WestOkid TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jan 25, 2014
    New Jersey, USA
    Gary
    Not true. Far more companies gain market share and name recognition then go high-end. This can be organic, but it can also be a bait and switch strategy. Rarely do brands that focus on higher-end products put much effort in the consumer space as it actually hurts the prestige they would've established. As for camera brands, all you have to do is look at Canon's EF-mount release dates and you can see they did not focus on high-end alone before establishing the consumer and mid market. Even now, the only bodies that get updated every year is their entry rebel line.

    Pure speculation. Please point to an actual road map or statement from Sony that even implies this will happen.

    The fact that you are tempted says we are not in the same boat me. The point being that I and many others are not tempted regardless of the quality in the same way we are not tempted by a Hasselblad H5D and it's MF goodness; it cost too much.
     
  20. nidza

    nidza TalkEmount Regular

    120
    Nov 1, 2013
    Serbia
    Exactly, Sony gained market share with APS-C MILC, but I am talking about FE only, in the topic about 'New Sony lenses' - with 3 new flagship FE lenses.

    Of course I speculate, but such a roadmap I wish is pretty much the only roadmap which makes sense. This is the way already seen before in DSLR story. No need to be different. Obviously they have technology and knowledge to create fantastic and expensive lenses, but in the same manner, they can create mid-range quality lenses like 28/2. It's up to them to decide when they will do it, but I am pretty confident they will.