Minolta AF 100mm f2.8 Macro vs Vivitar S1 90mm f2.5 Macro

Discussion in 'Adapted Lenses' started by Tipton, May 16, 2018.

  1. Tipton

    Tipton TalkEmount Veteran

    403
    Jan 30, 2016
    Rae Leggett
    I've wanted to compare the photos of these two lenses for a while. They're both on my personal favorite lenses list, and I use them both for macro. This isn't a "scientific" test, because while I used the same subjects, I used the Vivitar on my A7R2 and the Minolta on my A6500.

    First up, Minolta:

    _DSC4896.

    _DSC4898.

    _DSC4902.

    Next: Vivitar:

    _DSC8756.

    _DSC8758.

    _DSC8748.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. AlwaysOnAuto

    AlwaysOnAuto TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Feb 17, 2015
    Just looking at the images quickly, I like the back ground blur of the Vivitar better than the Minolta.
     
  3. WNG

    WNG TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 12, 2014
    Arrid Zone-A, USA
    Will
    Bokina!! Love that last one. I too prefer it, but isn't a real fair comparison given the different bodies and one being APS-C.
     
  4. AlwaysOnAuto

    AlwaysOnAuto TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Feb 17, 2015
    C'mon Will, he said it wasn't a scientific test. At least he used the same subjects AND told us what camera's he used.
    If it were blind, could you have figured out which was which?
     
  5. WNG

    WNG TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 12, 2014
    Arrid Zone-A, USA
    Will
    I also have the Vivitar Series-1 so I may be biased. The Minolta lost a stop and the bokeh is more f/4. The deck is slightly 'stacked' in the Vivitar's favor here.
    Just trying to give the Minolta it's due against the 'legendary' Bokina. And when things reach legendary status, it's interesting to see how they stack up against each other. Like one 911 flat-six against another generation. But best run on the same track and conditions and tires. The Bokina earned its nickname for the distinct quality of its bokeh.
    Like gearheads who claim they can identify any car blindfolded by their exhaust note or feel through the seat of the pants, there will be those arrogant (and/or delusional) enough to be able to pick out the shots in a blind test. I am humbly not one to claim such keen abilities.
    All the shots are full of macro goodness...not a knock against Rae's efforts. Maybe you took it the wrong way and having a cow over it. I can't help you there. :rolleyes: 
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  6. Tipton

    Tipton TalkEmount Veteran

    403
    Jan 30, 2016
    Rae Leggett
    I like them both, obviously. The Minolta is easier to use because it's lighter and autofocus. (And the autofocus is usually spot on, with that old lens.) The Bokina is a solid chunk of manual focus metal and glass, but it's bokeh has a "dreamy" quality to it that I really like.

    The Minolta is also much less expensive.
     
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  7. JMM

    JMM TalkEmount Regular

    191
    Jul 29, 2016
    John
    Like your shots! Seems to me that both of those do the job properly. I see that minolta have round aperture and Tokina is "etchy" which i personaly dont like. On the other hand, LoCA much nicer on Tokina.
    I always wondered how people are worried about bokeh with macro lenses. This is today shot with A7RII and Minolta 100 F2.8 i wonder if someone can guess which F-stop was used here:
    Karolina Zamoyska_1.
     
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  8. WNG

    WNG TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 12, 2014
    Arrid Zone-A, USA
    Will
    f/8?
    BTW, very nice shot. A water color painting quality and that dreamy melted away background.
     
  9. eno789

    eno789 TalkEmount Top Veteran

    770
    Jan 1, 2012
    NoCal, USA
    Brian
    Strictly speaking, the Tokina version of the 90mm/2.5 macro is named as "Bokina" (Bokeh and Tokina).

    See Nickname for Tokina AT-X 90mm f/2.5 ????: Nikon DX SLR (D40-D90, D3000-D7500) Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review for the origin of the lens nickname.

    The Vivitar S1 90mm/2.5 (also made by Tokina) is the precursor of the Bokina. The Tokina version changed to 55mm filter thread, and improved a bit on the coating.
     
  10. JMM

    JMM TalkEmount Regular

    191
    Jul 29, 2016
    John
    F22 :) 
     
  11. WNG

    WNG TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 12, 2014
    Arrid Zone-A, USA
    Will
    I assumed this was with the a fore mentioned Maxxum AF 100-f/2.8 Macro. Or was this a MC or MD Rokkor 100-f/2.8?
     
  12. JMM

    JMM TalkEmount Regular

    191
    Jul 29, 2016
    John
    Yes, MAF 100 F2.8 macro, first all metal version, via LA-EA4 on A7RII. Image is very soft due to diffraction. Effective aperture is F44. Bokeh?
     
  13. Tipton

    Tipton TalkEmount Veteran

    403
    Jan 30, 2016
    Rae Leggett
    Now I have to ask what you mean by "effective aperture".
     
  14. WNG

    WNG TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 12, 2014
    Arrid Zone-A, USA
    Will
    Thanks Brian, for the link to the origins of the Bokina nickname. An interesting thread on the trivia of how it started. I'm SO GLAD they didn't decide on Butter Knife! LOL! :D 
    I take the proverbial "chicken or the egg" position. The nickname came later, but the lens formula came first in the predecessor Series-1. And the AT-X version wouldn't have existed had it not for Vivitar discontinuing it from its line up. I believe there is now a general widespread consensus out there that the Bokina nickname includes referencing the Series-1, for better or for worse.

    Making Not Taking: Vivitar Series 1 90mm f/2.5 VMC 1:2 "Bokina"
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
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  15. Tipton

    Tipton TalkEmount Veteran

    403
    Jan 30, 2016
    Rae Leggett
    Thanks for sharing the article. I wish my copy had come with the case, because storing the lens and its extender separately is a pain. But I see a lot of these lenses sold without their extender on eBay.
     
  16. WNG

    WNG TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 12, 2014
    Arrid Zone-A, USA
    Will
    Interesting. From the shallow DOF across the leaf, I didn't think it was f22. I'd say the bokeh would win the approval of a bokeh purist, of which I'm not. I'm equally fond of the trippy stuff. I'd also like you to elaborate on the f44 effective aperture.
     
  17. JMM

    JMM TalkEmount Regular

    191
    Jul 29, 2016
    John
    Nominal aperture is accurate only when lens is focused at infinity. Effective aperture is "real" value. Only manufacturer that actually report it is AFAIK Nikon, hence lots of confusion about micro Nikkor lenses (where it's most visible)
    Effective aperture formula is:
    EF=Fstop*(Magnification+1)

    Which basically means that closer you focus - your Fstop gets smaller. More visual example:
    Lens set on F22 and focused on infinity => EA=F because 22=22*(0+1)
    Lens set on F22 and focused on 1:2 => EA = F*1,5 because 33 = 22*(0,5+1)
    Lens set on F22 and focused on 1:1 => EA=F*2 because 44=22*(1+1) <- thats what Nikon camera would display.

    Nikon FAQ:
    https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/ni/NI_article?articleNo=000002973&configured=1&lang=en_US

    Try googling "nikkor cant open aperture" :) 

    Interesting thing is that other cameras DO know about effective aperture and automatically compensate for it.
    Weird example is Canon Mp-E65 mounted on Sony E mount via Commlite adapter - it does report effective aperture in camera... BUT that prevents you from stopping down the lens as Sony camera or commlite adapter thinks it's nominal aperture and prevent you from stopping it down. Weird. Basically on 5:1 im stuck in F16-F18 range which is nominal F2.8 - F3.2
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
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