Learn something new every day…..Interesting discovery last night

Discussion in 'Adapted Lenses' started by roundball, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. roundball

    roundball TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Oct 8, 2013
    USA
    99 times out of 100 I use AP mode with my manual Canon lenses on the NEX-7 and it sets a shutter speed of course. But occasionally, when shooting subjects like the moon, I use full manual mode, setting both aperture and shutter speed…and rarely ever change the shutter…only the aperture to bracket a shot. And of course, the change in the EVF is immediately obvious whenever I change an aperture setting as that literally / physically lets more or less light into the camera as we know.

    However, in experimenting with cloud shots around the moon last night, for a different approach I set aperture wide open and played with different shutter settings instead, assuming I’d watch the exposure scale at the bottom of the EVF.

    To my complete surprise, changes in shutter settings also resulted in immediate changes in the EVF view…(like when I’d physically change the aperture)…NOT actually taking a shot yet mind you, just rolling the shutter speed up and down and the EVF view would change its view. I could go from a totally black sky with just the little moon appearing in the EVF to full blown images of surrounding clouds...just by changing the shutter…WITHOUT actually taking any shots yet.

    I had thought that the EVF was a 100% display of what a sensor actually saw from light coming in…was surprised to learn that the camera apparently calculated what those views WOULD look like with different shutter speeds and presented the corresponding views in the EVF…because while I was rolling the shutter dial back and forth, I wasn’t actually allowing any more physical light into the camera.

    This is probably camera operation 101 to all of you, but since no one ever accused me of being the sharpest knife in the drawer, I thought I’d toss it out in case anyone wants to elaborate further.
    [ PS: a good example of why I don’t need to get wrapped up in GAS for camera bodies :) ]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. NickCyprus

    NickCyprus Super Moderator

    Oct 11, 2012
    Cyprus
    Nick
    Yeah that's normal - its the triangle of exposure after all (aperture, ISO, shutter speed) - what ever you change, alters the exposure (brightness) (but of course which ever you change, has other effects too, like depth of field, etc) ;)
     
  3. roundball

    roundball TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Oct 8, 2013
    USA
    :) Completely understand the exposure triangle, LOL.
    Was simply making the point that without physically changing the actual amount of light entering the camer as with a manual aperture change, I was surprised to find that the camera's circuitry was also clamping down or freeing up the actual EVF view based on shutter, instead of just moving the EVF exposure scale or Histogram.
    This should be a big help "seeing" moonscapes better.
     
  4. fractal

    fractal TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jun 17, 2014
    Southeastern PA
    Chris
    Slower shutter speed does allow more light to hit the sensor. I'm a bit confused with what you are saying.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. WoodWorks

    WoodWorks Super Moderator

    Dec 12, 2012
    Ashland, OR, USA
    David
    That's a feature that you can turn on and off in the menus. Sony calls it "Live View Display" I believe. I've never really messed with it, but I understand it's useful when you want to be able to "see in the dark." :ninja:
     
  6. roundball

    roundball TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Oct 8, 2013
    USA
    Of course it does...but my assumption has been that shutter change influences would occur only if & when the shot was actually being executed at a different shutter speed.
    Had never noticed / didn't realize the camera would display EVF views differently / realtime while simply making experimental changes to the shutter setting without actually taking a shot at a shutter setting, that's all.
     
  7. fractal

    fractal TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jun 17, 2014
    Southeastern PA
    Chris
    OK, understand now. I always use this and is one reason why I won't go back to an OVF. Wysiwyg feature is great. I shoot in Manual over 90% of the time ( so easy with tri-nav on Nex-7) and for whatever reason I find myself changing shutter speed much more than aperture or ISO.
     
  8. fractal

    fractal TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jun 17, 2014
    Southeastern PA
    Chris
    Now I'm more confused. If my Exposure is underexposed and I lower the shutter speed while looking through the viewfinder or looking at the back LCD, the picture will "brighten". If I increase my shutter speed my picture will "darken". Likewise when I make any adjustments to Aperture or ISO I see it in the viewfinder instantly.
     
  9. WoodWorks

    WoodWorks Super Moderator

    Dec 12, 2012
    Ashland, OR, USA
    David
    I'm not sure where the confusion lies. If you start with an underexposed image in the viewfinder, and you lower the shutter speed, you will be increasing the amount of light that hits the sensor. So the EVF will brighten to show you the effect of that lower shutter speed (Thus my "see in the dark" statement above). If you increase the shutter speed, the EVF will show you the effect of that shutter speed increase — less total light hitting the sensor = a darker image.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. fractal

    fractal TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jun 17, 2014
    Southeastern PA
    Chris
    You said it's an option you can turn on called "live view display". I've never turned on anything like that and It's what my EVF always displays.
     
  11. WoodWorks

    WoodWorks Super Moderator

    Dec 12, 2012
    Ashland, OR, USA
    David
    I understand now. Live View Display ON is the default setting, so you didn't have to turn it on. If you turn it off, it'll stop showing you the effect of a shutter or aperture change in the EVF.

    At least that's what my A7 does.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. WNG

    WNG TalkEmount All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2014
    Arrid Zone-A, USA
    Will
    Yup! The power of mirrorless. I would also never go back to DSLR and their OVF.
    Been leaving it on Manual while shooting the Moon and flora, tuning with the EVF.

    When migrating to Sony, one brings along their SLR experience, but a lot of that baggage should be shed, and relearn to shoot with the advantages offered. I had to from years of Canon use.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. MAubrey

    MAubrey TalkEmount Top Veteran

    It's really useful to turn off, however, if you're shooting with strobes. Otherwise, it's just really dark.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Mus Aziz

    Mus Aziz TalkEmount Top Veteran

    575
    Sep 3, 2015
    Mus
    Interesting. Let me try setting it to OFF.
     
  15. Mus Aziz

    Mus Aziz TalkEmount Top Veteran

    575
    Sep 3, 2015
    Mus
    OK...it works. I mean with Live View Display OFF, the brightness level of the EVF or the LCD display remain constant regardless of the aperture, shutter speed or ISO setting.

    This is brilliant because I use my manual focus and manual aperture setting of my Loxia 35 most of the time. Meaning I don't need to manually stop down the lens after focusing. That is to say, I just set the lens at the desired aperture and shutter speed (my ISO is on Auto), focus with a reasonably bright EVF, and fire away.

    If I have set the desired aperture, shutter speed and ISO (fixed ISO), I need to watch the exposure scale at the bottom of the EVF to make sure I get the correct exposure.

    Brilliant! Thank you guys, especially Roundball who brought this topic up. :2thumbs:
     
  16. WestOkid

    WestOkid TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jan 25, 2014
    New Jersey, USA
    Gary
    It's important to note that it turns off all the "effects" not just keeps it bright. The finder is no longer WYSIWYG, it works more like an OVF. So DOF doesn't match what will be captured.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  17. soeren

    soeren TalkEmount Top Veteran

    657
    Dec 12, 2014
    Næstved, Denmark
    Soeren
    Er sorry? Does your lenses have an automatic stopdown feature? My lenses are manually stopped down and as a result I do see the dof effect of the chosen apperture No matter what setting.
     
  18. WestOkid

    WestOkid TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jan 25, 2014
    New Jersey, USA
    Gary
    I'm not sure what you mean. I just tried it with the SEL55F18Z and the SEL28F20. When the setting is off changing the Aperture does not affect DOF. I am using the A7

    This link explains it in detail. It also tells you how to assign a custom button for Aperture preview similar to DOF preview on a DSLR.

    Sony A7 "Live View" different settings - Sony Alpha Full Frame Cameras
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. soeren

    soeren TalkEmount Top Veteran

    657
    Dec 12, 2014
    Næstved, Denmark
    Soeren
    Oh ok so the electronic lenses have autostopdown/automatic diaphragm just like an slr
     
  20. WNG

    WNG TalkEmount All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2014
    Arrid Zone-A, USA
    Will
    No, that's not what's happening. The Live View works as well with vintage manual-focus lenses.
    What is provided will be written to memory. Or more accurately, a very very close approximation of the final exposure.
    The EVF's strength over OVFs is that it's an alternative to the LCD panel. The small panels are useless for composing pre-shot. (Canon and Nikon have them.) Especially in bright sunlight.
    EVFs reveal the detailed changes of your exposure or creative style selection immediately. (Where talkin' big, high res EVFs)
    Hence, WYSIWYG.

    EDIT: Nevermind, I now see you were responding to Gary's post about being able to assign a custom button option.