Just got the 5n, my thoughts and sell the 7D?

Discussion in 'Sony Alpha E-Mount Cameras' started by NEX5n&Canon5D3owner, May 30, 2012.

  1. NEX5n&Canon5D3owner

    NEX5n&Canon5D3owner TalkEmount Rookie

    16
    May 30, 2012
    I found this website and thought I must join it to join in on the discussion of the NEX camera's.

    My background is all DSLR. I started with crop sensor bodies but moved up to full frame. I am now on my second full frame, the Canon 5D mark 3. I also own a Canon 7D. It was always difficult for me to use the Canon 7D indoors because the full frame sensor worked much better and spoiled me with it's low light high ISO performance over the cropped sensor. Yet, now I'm with another crop sensor...

    My reason for getting this camera is because I miss a ton of good shots because I never want to lug my Canon 5D around with my L series glass. Even if I just carry one lens and the DSLR it's still a bit heavy to carry around and if it's a day where there are no special shots scheduled to be taken, I just simply don't bring it. This led me to the compact world. I got a Canon 300hs, I never was that satisfied with it. I shoot RAW and that compact would not shoot RAW. I was about to buy a compact that would shoot RAW when I decided on going with the mirror less NEX system instead.

    So far I have found it a lot more difficult to shoot in M mode. I do have my custom button selections but I have to hit the down button twice to scroll between shutter and aperture. I'm able to do this much faster on a DSLR so I can imagine when wanting to take a picture of something on the fly with this camera, it may be in P mode. Which is something that never happens with my DSLR. I shoot in M mode exclusively.

    I haven't been super impressed with the low lighting ISO performance that a lot of people love about this camera. But I think that is due to me being used to the low light ISO performance of the full frame 5D mark iii. It does look comparable to the 7D for the low light ISO performance. I am looking forward to taking more pictures with it and posting them here.

    I bought the Sony messenger bag along with it, I also bought every lens for it except the 16mm pancake lens. I do not plan on connecting my Canon lenses to this camera. To me that destroy's the purpose of why I got it. My Canon lenses are big and heavy, my reason for the NEX-5N was sole based on it being light. If I used my EOS ef lenses, it just wouldn't make much sense. So, I did not buy any sort of adapters.

    I was impressed with the video. I shoot in 24FPS in the high quality mode. Although it tells you it must be burnt to blu ray, of course you can convert the file. I convert the file to .mp4 and therefore I have a better video than just using the camera's Mp4 setting. The video honestly looks very close to my DSLR's from what I have tried with it so far.

    My dilemma I am facing now is, should I sell my 7D? My 7D rarely gets used because my main camera is my 5Dmark3. The 7D is simply a backup. But, I am tempted to sell the 7D to pay off the purchase of this NEX-5n and use the NEX-5n as my crop sensor. The 7D mostly sits in the camera bag. It's very rare that it gets taken out. Although with video shoots I do use the 7D as an alternate angle camera sometimes but it's not something I have to have. I also have held on to the 7D due to the fact that it has the crop sensor and can zoom further with my zoom lenses. I would love to simply pay off this purchase though and I can't say that I'd miss the 7D but there might be some situations where I would have used it and no longer have it.

    Has anyone else gotten rid of their crop sensor DSLR's since going mirror less that has a full frame as a main DSLR camera?
     
  2. Electric Shepherd

    Electric Shepherd TalkEmount Regular

    103
    May 12, 2012
    Leicestershire, U.K.
    Ben
    Welcome! As usual, it depends...

    Whilst I've not got a full frame digital camera, I've got an F5 that occasionally gets dragged along with my gripped D300, I'm enjoying a light weight quality APS-C experience with my Nex-3.

    The only reason I can think of to retain your 7D is if you shoot sports or wildlife. The inherent 1.6x crop is an advantage in reach over your 5D3 and the AF will be far superior to the contrast detection AF in the Nex. For street, portrait and landscape photography I feel the 7D is looking a bit redundant.
     
  3. NEX5n&Canon5D3owner

    NEX5n&Canon5D3owner TalkEmount Rookie

    16
    May 30, 2012
    Yeah, this is true. The 7D no doubt will out perform the NEX-5N with it's AF and many other features. The issue is, I don't really ever use the 7D. I use the 5D, yet I hang on to the 7D for a backup or a "just incase," situation. But now that I have the NEX-5N I feel like it could handle that. Plus I charged the NEX-5N and the 7D would pay it and some of the lenses off easily. It is hard to let the 7D go but I can't hang on to everything!

    I am hoping Sony really keeps up with this NEX series as I have invested in it. Not only the camera, but almost every lens. I was going to go with the nex-7 but it looked like the 5n was just as good and some say even better with lower ISO and going with the cheaper body allowed me to get those lenses. The NEX-7 seems far over priced for what it is.

    I am hoping Canon doesn't release their mirrorless camera's and blow away what Sony is doing. Sony has a chance to be the leader in this next generation of camera's. Because I can see mirrorless killing the DSLR 5 years from now.
     
  4. Bolampau

    Bolampau TalkEmount Veteran

    276
    Apr 22, 2012
    Lincolnshire, England
    Paul
    Like you, I bought the NEX due to its small size and portability. I also have two Sony a850 full frame bodies and a battery of Sony/Minolta lenses BUT I always left them at home - unless I was on a mission to take photos!

    Now I can carry the NEX-7 wherever I go and it is perfect to capture unexpected shots.
    As Electric Shepherd says the 7D's 1.6x crop factor can be a distinct advantage but you've got to balance that benefit against the cost of keeping it. Reluctantly, I've always had to sell older equipment to fund new kit so I can appreciate your dilemna! In fact, I sold a Canon PowerShot G10 to help fund the NEX.

    Your final point is interesting as Canon have fallen behind in the mirrorless race whilst they appear to be more focused in adding video capabilities to their cameras. Maybe I'm way off the mark and their R&D Dept. is aggressively designing their own mirrorless equivalent! But, Sony already have a range of NEX cameras selling strongly in the marketplace which puts them way ahead. However, Sony are re-organising their business structure but I believe the NEX products are one of their priorities so the future looks bright!
    Cheers,
    Paul
     
  5. NEX5n&Canon5D3owner

    NEX5n&Canon5D3owner TalkEmount Rookie

    16
    May 30, 2012
    Yeah, it really is changing the game when it comes to being able to take more photo's. Honestly with just DSLR's I was hardly ever taking photo's unless I was specifically going somewhere to take a photo. So, I never got to catch an, "in the moment," photo. If I did it would be on an iphone or on a compact camera that didn't even shoot RAW. So, usually I wouldn't even bother with it.

    Like you, I will probably decide to sell the 7D to fund the NEX. I'm not in much dept I had all my stuff paid off so I allowed myself to charge the NEX. Although, since then I have had recent things happen all at once that have cost me quite a bit of money. So, paying off the NEX would be a huge deal for me right now. But parting with the 7D would be a very difficult thing to do! I am just now getting myself in professional video situations where I am being hired to shoot music video's and live performances and having that 7D for an alternate angle is useful but I could get away without it also.

    I hope Sony does keep it up! I hope they release better lenses. I don't like the idea of adapting my Canon lenses. It just takes the point out of it like I said before. Why get the smaller camera only to adapt the big lens? Unless it's someone's only camera. It destroys the purpose of the camera for me. I want small lenses.
     
  6. Bolampau

    Bolampau TalkEmount Veteran

    276
    Apr 22, 2012
    Lincolnshire, England
    Paul
    I totally agree with you that small lenses are the way forward for the NEX system and I'm sure the marketplace will be full of them within the next year. I did look at the LA-EA2 A-mount adaptor that Sony make but using full-frame lenses on NEX defeats the object for me personally. With my heavy alpha lenses I might as well use them on an a850 body! As you say though, it's different if you only have a NEX body.
    Recently, I've bought the Zeiss 24mm and a few Voigtlander lenses which I'm really pleased with.
    Cheers,
    Paul
     
  7. NEX5n&Canon5D3owner

    NEX5n&Canon5D3owner TalkEmount Rookie

    16
    May 30, 2012
    Is that one of their really expensive lens options for it? How well is it working? I'm looking forward to getting good glass for the NEX someday. I have L series lenses on my DSLR so I'm used to very high quality expensive glass. I have been tempted to get the canon adapter but like I said it doesn't make sense when my purpose was to get a smaller camera. Yet, I would like to see what it would do with good glass. But the good adapters I hear cost a good bit. The cheap ones I've read reviews on, always have problems.

    I have only really gotten to try this camera out indoors and during sunset. So I have been high ISO the whole time I've had the NEX. I can't wait to see how it looks once I get a good picture at a lower ISO.

    Do you have any pictures you can post here? And what lenses you used along with settings for the photo's. I'd like to see more of what this thing can do with e mount lenses.
     
  8. Bolampau

    Bolampau TalkEmount Veteran

    276
    Apr 22, 2012
    Lincolnshire, England
    Paul
    The Zeiss 24mm F1.8 is a marvellous lens - Luminous Landscape rate it alongside the Leica 24mm M F1.4 Summilux ASPH, see following review:-

    Sony NEX-7 Rolling Review

    Sony's 50mm F1.8 is also a brilliant lens and I cannot wait to get my hands on the 55-210 lens (on order but still out of stock :( ).

    There's a great archive of other forum members photos that you must look at but, as far as my examples are concerned, I've posted a few on this forum with all the details as follows:-

    https://www.talkemount.com/f17/hand-held-twilight-portrait-982/
    https://www.talkemount.com/f15/rainy-landscape-b-w-infrared-effect-972/
    https://www.talkemount.com/f15/stark-tree-rape-seed-field-960/
    https://www.talkemount.com/f18/irnham-church-1031/
    https://www.talkemount.com/f18/its-stopped-raining-1024/
    https://www.talkemount.com/f16/dramatic-sky-tree-quarry-edge-1001/

    Finally, I would like to say how impressed I am with Voigtlander lenses, they are exceptionally well built and I can't fault them optically. I only use Metabones or Voigtlander's own adaptors but they are not cheap! If you have have very deep pockets then Leica M lenses are the best I've ever used and I've still got the 90mm F2.8 Elmarit-M which works superbly using a Metabones adaptor.
    Hope this helps.
    Cheers,
    Paul
     
  9. Dioptrick

    Dioptrick TalkEmount All-Pro

    Feb 4, 2012
    New Zealand
    Same here. I used to carry a metal bag to lug my film SLR gear around. Somehow it was an acceptable thing to do, back in the day. When things went digital, I only used a DSLR if I had to - for product shoots at work. Little compacts left me totally disinterested other than to do family snaps on occasions, my passion for photography had died along with film.

    I was contemplating getting a Canon "G series" when I chanced upon the NEX-5N by accident and it turned things around for me. It has renewed a joy in photography I haven't had for a long time. At the moment, I mostly use the 5N with old-school legacy glass. The NEX ability to easily accept just about any MF lens imaginable, focus peaking, and its amazing sensor (to me anyway) is what keeps me coming back for more.

    Here's an "in the moment" sample from my 5N with a small-ish Asahi Takumar lens. I was on my way to the beach to catch the sunrise so it was still very dark. With the 5N's sensor and a moderately fast lens, impromptu shots like these are possible without a tripod and without image stabilization.

    Takumar55-13.
    Takumar 55mm, f1.8, 1/60 sec, ISO 3200 hand-held
     
  10. Bolampau

    Bolampau TalkEmount Veteran

    276
    Apr 22, 2012
    Lincolnshire, England
    Paul
    Hi Dioptrick,
    a beautiful photo if I may say so, I love the sweeping arabesque of the jetty. I must admit that the one thing the NEX system is teaching me is to ignore the ISO and blast away! As a result I'm getting good photos, hand-held, that I'd never have bothered trying with DSLRs.
    Cheers,
    Paul
     
  11. NEX5n&Canon5D3owner

    NEX5n&Canon5D3owner TalkEmount Rookie

    16
    May 30, 2012
    The 5D mark 3 is what got me spoiled on ignoring ISO's. You can't see grain on that thing in hardly any situation. I think with the NEX it depends on the type of lighting because I see some people's shots outside at 3200 and it don't look bad. But if I take a shot in my apartment at 3200, no matter what the f stop or shutter speed is I get a grainy looking picture. But, then again, the 7D does the same thing.

    With the 5Dmk3 I will usually go 400 ISO on a sunny day or sometimes even 800 iso for a sharp fast shutter speed. Because you can't see any difference. Even at 3200 ISO can't even notice it. They made it even better than the mark 2 was. So I got really spoiled with that thing.
     
  12. davect01

    davect01 Super Moderator

    Aug 20, 2011
    Fountain Hills, AZ
    Dave
    You original question is one of the most asked here. Having the Canon, I just don't see having the Nikon as well. I personally know a few people, (online and personally), who have four or five cameras and routinely even will carry two at a time.

    My thought on this subject depends greatly on what kind of user you are.

    If you are like me and love taking pictures, but don't publish pictures nor try and run a business with your camera than the NEX will be more than adequate. The big selling point is portability. I have no issue taking my NEX out and about and to family gatherings. I don't feel like I have a huge camera and as long as I have one of the smaller lenses, don't feel intrusive at intimate gatherings like I would with larger cameras.

    However if you plan on publishing pictures, or plan on running a photography business you might think twice. The NEX line is getting better and better with every generation, but is not quite at a consistent professional level. 90 percent of the time you will be pleased, but you don't want to have equipment issues when trying to get paid for your work. Additionally there is a limited amount of accessories available for the NEX line, which depending on what you are doing might minder your work.

    In summary, for me as a casual shooter, I have no major complaints with my NEX and for me it is more than adequate. I love the compactness, and love the portability of the system. However, I acknowledge that more demanding shooters depending on professional results might encounter some issues and have complaints.
     
  13. Dioptrick

    Dioptrick TalkEmount All-Pro

    Feb 4, 2012
    New Zealand
    Yes, the 5N sensor seems to be influenced by the type of lighting. I also found that that grain (or noise) does not always encompass the entire image in the NEX 1600-3200 ISO range. Most colours from middle to highlight values often don't have any grain at all, whereas certain tints from mid to dark shadow values are more susceptible to grain... especially purple-greys. So it's kinda weird to sometimes get a photo that's only "partially" grainy - depending on the lighting and colours in a composition.

    Another thing I observed is that some lenses get really grainy when stopped-down (f11) especially during extreme low light conditions like sunsets and sunrises - while other lenses don't (same ISO). I have no explanation for this.


    Thank you Paul.

    Yes the relatively low-noise capability of the NEX sensor in low light situations has also redefined the types of shots I do these days, things I wouldn't attempt in the past. That harbour shot would've been impossible with noise prone sensors even with a tripod... where I would not have dared to go past ISO400, so the shutter would end up being 1/8 sec. At that speed the light reflections over the moving water would've been blurry to a point that they would look like horrid sci-fi ray-gun beams, and be out-of-character for that composition.
     
  14. Dioptrick

    Dioptrick TalkEmount All-Pro

    Feb 4, 2012
    New Zealand
    If timing is not an issue, I'd say hang-on to your 7D for a while, until you get fully acquainted with your new 5N and have at least settled on a favourite lens or two. The 5N's controls navigation is rather annoying at first, especially if you've already developed an instinctual DSLR dexterity. I got over this hurdle by shifting my mindset to treat the 5N as a cell phone (navigation-wise), so concessions will have to be made. Where the 7D would beat the 5N is the ease of handling and instantaneous access to a comprehensive set of controls and terminals. You also seem to have a substantial array of lenses for it. However from what you're saying, the positives in the 7D comes at a price - bulk and weight, which is why you don't use it. That's the area where the 5N comes into its own. We've all discovered that the NEX kit lenses are rather very good. The 5N is small enough to leave in the car glove box, or fit in large jacket pockets or small inconspicuous satchel bags. I often wander around public places with the 5N on my right hand with a wrist strap, no one cares or even gives notice - a benefit I would lose if I had a large DSLR hanging around my neck. So after a familiarization period, you'll know if your 5N is on par or even exceeds the usefulness of your 7D - according to the type of photography you use it for. Make your decision then.

    If you want to make the decision right now based on a poll (being aware that we all have a different angle on photography which may not be the same as yours), my 'vote' is to go with the 5N. It's not a matter of which of the two is the better camera, but rather which of the two will get used. With the 7D your money is sitting idle, with the 5N you might at least get a few good "in the moment" shots because you've got it on hand. If you need a better IQ than what the 5N can deliver, you can always fall back on your trusty (drool) 5D III.
     
  15. NEX5n&Canon5D3owner

    NEX5n&Canon5D3owner TalkEmount Rookie

    16
    May 30, 2012
    Yeah, I've decided not to sell my 7D because my job might require it in some situations. I get hired to do music videos, record concerts with the 5D. That sort of thing. Mostly video, although I try to get hired to do photography, the photography business isn't going that well these days.

    I'm hired to record a famous artist tonight who wants me to do handheld 5Dmk3 on the stage! Usually I'm all tripod. I do have a rig but holding those things steady with L series lenses with no IS so a difficult thing to do. He wants me to walk around him, etc, while he's doing his thing on stage. In doing a film I mostly do it all on a tripod. But now that I've gotten into this music video/concert business it's changing. The music video's I'm still able to do via tripod. A video tripod of course which will pan smooth up and down, left and right. Can't get it done with a photography tripod for sure!

    The 7D came out on my last concert as an alternate angle because I did it with a tripod. Yet, I barely used any footage from it. Photography wise the only reason I'd ever use the 7D is with my zoom lenses.

    I know every one should have a back up, but with video that kind of doesn't work with the 7D. If my 5D was to mess up, having the 7D as a back up isn't going to matter much because these guys know what they want and they want full frame video, at least for the main takes. For alternate angels they don't mind an asp-c chip.

    I do wish the focusing system was better on the 5n. Is it possible to keep it in a mode where I can tap something and then focus on it? Because I have tried different modes and I found one mode like that but after I got out of that screen it too me back to normal.

    I took this the other day.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/justinloganproductions/7213926072/" title="Blue Hole 1 5-16-12 by nagol5178, on Flickr"> 7213926072_da04e13ab7_b. "1024" height="683" alt="Blue Hole 1 5-16-12"></a>
     
  16. NEX5n&Canon5D3owner

    NEX5n&Canon5D3owner TalkEmount Rookie

    16
    May 30, 2012
    I took these with the NEX5n today. Both with the 50mm 1.8 Sony E mount lens made for the NEX. I use Adobe Lightroom 4. Of course I shoot Raw.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/justinloganproductions/7315016578/" title="Rusty NEX5n 1-1-12 by nagol5178, on Flickr"> 7315016578_0a8ff514b0_b. "1024" height="680" alt="Rusty NEX5n 1-1-12"></a>
    <BR>
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/justinloganproductions/7315033668/" title="Basketball Goal NEX5n 1-1-12 by nagol5178, on Flickr"> 7315033668_1f0b605736_b. "1024" height="680" alt="Basketball Goal NEX5n 1-1-12"></a>
     
  17. Dioptrick

    Dioptrick TalkEmount All-Pro

    Feb 4, 2012
    New Zealand
    Great 5N maiden shots NCO (short for nexcanonowner :) )!

    Not exactly sure what you mean regarding your question, but I'll give it a go and see if it applies.

    The 5N has a feature called focus tracking. If your touch screen is enabled, tap on any object in your composition and the AF will track on that object by shape recognition (a white box will appear over the object or person). The AF will actually follow it around even if it's moving and your 5N is stationary on a tripod. I think it's designed to be used in HD movie recording but I use it for stills. It's fairly basic and has it's limitations, so provided the subject isn't moving too quickly and the shape is distinct and has sufficient contrast, it works pretty good.

    If that's not the answer you were after, do a 'search' for a thread that has a link to download a comprehensive 5N pdf manual. I can't remember where it is but I've downloaded it and it is a must read to make the most out of your 5N.
     
  18. Luiz Curcino

    Luiz Curcino TalkEmount Veteran

    265
    Apr 27, 2012
    Uberlandia-MG Brasil
    Hello all.
    why I chose a Nex5N?
    Sony Nex-5N came up with some improvements over the previous Nex5: ISO 100 to 26,000; improved image quality and so on ... The Nex7 would be a good thing, but it is expensive ...

    Bellow comparison between Nex5N with 40mm lens and a DSLR with EF 35mm lens. The lens is attached to the Nex is type rangefinder, so the size is much smaller compared to the EF lens! This makes a big difference when loading and holding.
    Recalling that the sensors are the same size in both:
    Nexcomparedtodslr.

    I'm tired of carrying a DSLR in the neck in my travels around ...
    Now I prefer a camera with less weight, smaller and more discreet. Just a personal question...

    But as the NEX5n&Canon5D3owner uses to work, then this is another matter...

    Greetings
     
  19. davect01

    davect01 Super Moderator

    Aug 20, 2011
    Fountain Hills, AZ
    Dave
    The size is exactly why these smaller cameras are taking off, especially for casual shooters who are not making a living with their photography.

    You can do 90% of the same stuff a DSLR can and not have the size/weight concerns.
     
  20. NEX5n&Canon5D3owner

    NEX5n&Canon5D3owner TalkEmount Rookie

    16
    May 30, 2012
    yeah, but they are going to have to upgrade the firmware and get the AF system down before it can officially compete with the DSLR. Although outside I got comparable results to my 7D shooting on a sunny day as you can see in the pictures above. The 7D photos would have looked pretty much the same. Although the bokeh would have been better around the basketball goal. That would be due to my L series lenses.