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Here we go... Canon's answer to the NEX!

Discussion in 'Sony Alpha E-Mount News and Rumors' started by Dioptrick, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. Bolampau

    Bolampau TalkEmount Veteran

    Apr 22, 2012
    Lincolnshire, England
    Thanks Dioptrick,
    I'm not overly excited by this new offering from Canon - no plug in EVF or tilting screen.

    One solid point that Sony must consider is that the Canon's movie record button only triggers when the camera is set to movie shooting mode!
  2. Bugleone

    Bugleone TalkEmount Veteran

    Aug 21, 2011
    This is a fairly blatant 'me too' product, even down to the look-alike lenses. If it's the best of their design and ingenuity then things don't bode well.........
  3. Dioptrick

    Dioptrick TalkEmount All-Pro

    Feb 4, 2012
    New Zealand
    Wow, that's pretty basic... which is their target market I suppose.

    My son just emailed me the link so I haven't had a chance to read through the entire pre-view yet, but I did see the part that mentions that there's no focus peaking. If their sensor IQ isn't better or on-par with the NEX sensor either, it may prove to be a disappointment for Canon fans at this point...

    Yes, that's a big one that Sony might learn one of these days... that, and having the common sense of using a normal flash hot-shoe!

    Reminds me of a saying, "Even a broken clock gets the time right, twice a day." :eek: 
  4. Frankly, I expected more from Canon. Recently I made a switch from Nikon to the NEX-7 (Sony) and was a little afraid that I made this choice too soon. Looking at the specifications I expected more from Canon. Especially the video capabilities remain far behind compared to the NEX 7 and the frame rate is significantly lower. The specs are similar to the NEX5 / NEX F3 but the prices are higher. Perhaps Canon will make a model similar to the NEX 7 in the future.

    I think this is particular camera for people with an existing collection of Canon lenses but they need to use an adapter. Actually, that's nothing new under the sun because that is something we currently can do with other MFT or Sony NEX. (Including other brands) Perhaps people in that situation feel more comfortable with a Canon lens on a Canon camera. The weight advantage is minimal because the DSLR lenses are often the most weight in a camera bag. Furthermore, the weight advantage of this compared to a simple reflex camera is minimal. You achieve only advantages (weight) if you use specially designated lenses. However what is than the major advantage compared to what is already on the market?

    Personally I had expected that Canon would come with a device similar to the NEX 7 or the new Fuji Xpro-1.
  5. Phoenix

    Phoenix TalkEmount Top Veteran

    Aug 25, 2011
    Melbourne, Australia
    Phoenix Gonzales
    The Canon mirrorless camera made me as excited a a lemming headed for a cliff

    What makes me think about Canon's offering is, who is their target market??

    Looking at the camera itself and the initial specs, it looks like the run of the mill mirrorless camera (I'm trying to politely say, it looks nothing special). Most of the major manufacturers have a specific target market in mind and being the last major manufacturer to throw their hats in the ring of mirrorless cameras, they had the time to study what the market wants, and the crowd that they can cater to.

    They had the time, the means, and the opportunity to develop and release something that will make major manufacturers like Nikon, Sony, Fuji, Pentax and Olympus say "Why didn't we think of that??", if I'm being ignorant, please forgive my ignorance but somehow I don't think what they just released fits the bill.

    So again, my question is, who is their target market? what is their long term strategy with this model? How are they going to respond to queries like "Why should I get this, when I can get....?", "What sets this apart from....?(I mean this is a positive manner)", or just plainly "Why should I get this?".

    Like Veneboer I expected more from Canon,I want to ask them as a camera company who has a long history of making DSLRs, Rangefinders, P&S, and a wide variety of good lenses and accessories, WHY????????? is it hubris? is it paranoia regarding cannibalising their DSLR offerings? is your head of marketing mentally stuck in the 80's? have you employed head lice to run your R&D department???

    Who knows? maybe they know something we dont. (or they were completely stoned when they decided to release this model)
  6. eno789

    eno789 TalkEmount Top Veteran

    Jan 1, 2012
    NoCal, USA
    Interested to see the performance of the 22mm pancake. Depends on the IQ, this probably is a good move from Canon. I wish Sony had something like that in addition to the Zeiss 24mm.

    Personally I don't shoot Canon DSLR, so the EOS to EOS-M advantage is of no interest to me.
  7. dbmiller

    dbmiller TalkEmount Top Veteran

    Mar 2, 2012
    New England
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think other rmirrorless cameras started out with a pro model, either. So Canon is getting it's foot in the door with a basic mirrorless camera. Are more pro-oriented models coming down the road? Probably - Only time will tell. Canon is certainly late to the party, and many people were expecting a higher-end camera from Canon. But they had to start somewhere.
  8. kevistopheles

    kevistopheles TalkEmount All-Pro

    Jun 18, 2012
    I think their mirrorless cameras are more a threat to their own Rebel sales then they are to NEX or Olympus or Panasonic at this point. I think where NEX needs to watch out is in that Canon does has a significant amount of experience in lenses and could easily put together a line of cameras and lenses that could be very appealing. That said, I don't find this particular offering all that interesting. Right now what is holding NEX back are its lenses (or lack thereof). If they manage to put together a lens lineup like m43 they would be in great shape.
  9. lapdog99

    lapdog99 TalkEmount Veteran

    Sep 3, 2011
    Canon shot

    Although I am a Nikon/Panasonic/Sony shooter, if you are a Canon shooter, the full electronic lens comaptiblitly adapter is really nice, as is the user interface (see their video).
    The camera I am more curious about is the recently announced Panasonic FZ200, which provides 600 mm zoom with 2.8 aperture for $600. It doesn't have an AP-C sensor, but
    the movies and long shots look pretty good.
  10. Dioptrick

    Dioptrick TalkEmount All-Pro

    Feb 4, 2012
    New Zealand
    I had just finished reading the pre-view (nearly feel asleep). The comments section says it all... pretty grim (even comments made by Canon users).

    At first, I got the impression that Canon's first mirrorless offering was a stop-gap measure to buy them more time (they need more time?), or to ease gently into this new market sphere - but now I'm not too sure. Canon has the capability to produce a mirrorless camera that can rival if not exceed the current best - if they wanted to.

    What we have here is a camera not designed by innovative inspiration (that's plain to see), but perhaps designed by internal marketing politics to protect their current inventories...

    Yes, I too expected a sensational mirrorless reveal from Canon... (sigh).
  11. I’m no marketing / sales specialist but in my opinion it is wise to have exceptional specifications when entering a new market. Why be like all the rest? Now they are one of the many with a relative standard mirrorless camera. When I look at the way Fuji entered the mirrorles market with their x-pro 1 look, I think they have understood it. Canon has all the knowledge and tools to make something special and I simply expected them to make a statement to shake up the rest. That would also trigger Sony to work a little harder on the development site. I’m still waiting for more fast e-mount lenses.
  12. Bugleone

    Bugleone TalkEmount Veteran

    Aug 21, 2011
    Someone mentioned on another site that it's probably Canon's attempt to deter people from leaving the Canon brand as there is a large sale of canon lenses on ebay as people have been aquiring Fuji, NEX and Olympus/Panny mirrorless cameras and dumping the DSLR's on ebay.

    My own view is that the 'canon NEX' is simply a 'boardroom special',...ie., a camera that Canon engineers/stylists did NOT want to make, but people higher up the company have been gettign agitated about Sony and others forming new markets with mirrorless systems and have insisted on a canon equivalent.

    EDIT:...What IS quite interesting is that, right out of the gate Canon has been able to launch a f2 moderate wide pancake lens,....virtually the same spec as Sony 24mm 1.8 but about one third the size!!!....and the whole camera/lens combo for substantially less than the price of the 24mm alone!!
  13. Halka

    Halka TalkEmount Regular

    Mar 11, 2012
    Ľubomír Brindza
    It reads like everyone was expecting the second coming of Jesus or something :) 

    Those specs don't seem that bad, to be honest. Nothing special, but I'd probably think twice if I was looking for an EVIL right now, whether to choose the 5N or Canon's offering. To mention the interesting: input mic jack (and input audio levels adj.), non-retarded flash hotshoe (on the other hand, a complete lack of EVF option) and the ability to trigger remotes, and a relatively mature and responsive UI.

    I'm not sure about the current prices, but it does seem to fit between the 5N and the 7 in both specs and price, isn't that correct?

    All in all, not all that bad for a first try (although it is ugly as sin. And has no peaking. And no tilt-screen. Sigh.).
  14. Phoenix

    Phoenix TalkEmount Top Veteran

    Aug 25, 2011
    Melbourne, Australia
    Phoenix Gonzales
    I was discussing this with my bestfriend and fellow amateur photographer today about my dismay over Canon's mirrorless offering and he did put some things into perspective.

    He said I felt this way because I'm a mirrorless shooter (he shoots primarily with DSLRs and I shoot primarily with mirrorless) and since I shoot with mirrorless cameras day in and day out I know specifically what I want and I really expected this from Canon's release. He told me about the recent Canon 5D Mark 3 and the rumoured Nikon D600 that's he's so excited about and my reaction was as if an iceberg just floated past, it's most likely because I dont use DSLRs and other than desire as to whether to shoot FF or not I do not know much about them.

    If someone who knew nothing about mirrorless cameras were to buy their very first mirrorless camera what features would they look for?

    If they were moving up from a P&S; Focus peaking, adapting lenses, corner to corner sharpness, fall off, etc... will probably be something they wont be too familiar with, and will be something they will learn upon stepping up to a more advanced model or to a DSLR.

    If they were moving down from a DSLR, they'll probably use this a P&S, (no point in using it as their main unit, that's what their DSLR is for :p )

    I have to say, he did put some things into perspective and a lot of his arguements did make a lot of sense, but I still am not too nuts about it, sorry just my personal opinion :p 
  15. Dioptrick

    Dioptrick TalkEmount All-Pro

    Feb 4, 2012
    New Zealand
    Because Canon has been so late in entering the mirrorless arena, a lot of photographers anticipated that Canon's first release was going to be a pro-level "NEX-killer." Fujifilm's approach with the X-Pro1 is a precedent that may have fueled this expectation, they took the fight right up to the likes of Leica... so, what then would a company giant like Canon come up with?

    We all know that Canon has the capability to produce a supreme mirrorless camera, so expectations were understandably quite high... but, they've chosen not to do this. They have their reasons. Perhaps a premier pro-level mirrorless camera released by Canon at this point would only serve to hurt Canon the most - specifically their semi-pro Powershot G series and mid-level DSLRs.

    I've got a close friend who just put his Canon DSLR on the market a couple of weeks ago because he's had enough of the weight and bulk... he's going mirrorless and decided to switch to the Sony NEX-5N as soon as it sells. Will an entry level EOS-M be enough to sway him back to Canon, I wonder.

    I asked myself a similar question. If the EOS-M had been a higher spec mirrorless, would I switch back to my Canon roots? My honest answer was - only if it brought back the same joy, sense of discovery, and passion in photography that my 5N does. Then I realised, it's not just the IQ, or the specs, or the features that counts... it's more than that. It's also the shape, the feel, the weight as a collective whole. When I look at my 5N, I want to pick it up and take photos, even if it's too cold to get out of bed, or too dark, or too far, or too crowded... whatever. It's a very subjective and personal thing, because DSLRs and other mirrorless cameras don't have this effect on me. So if what really switches me on is the NEX essence, then I've already got it. Swapping the logo stamped on the body from Sony to Canon seems pointless as I very seldom use native AF lenses to begin with.

  16. dbmiller

    dbmiller TalkEmount Top Veteran

    Mar 2, 2012
    New England
    If I did not already have the NEX, I would consider the EOS-M: Only because my daughter has a 60D. I'd pony up for the the body, pancake, and EF adapter - Then share lenses with her.

    For someone who has a Canon dSLR, I can see picking up the body and adapter as a small, lightweight backup - Something to keep in the kit without taking up too much room - To have in case their main camera body has an issue. Price-wise, I would think most photographers with a Canon dSLR would probably still prefer a T4i as a backup - More manual controls, things where you expect them, etc. Price with adapter needs to be lower, or a more professional model needs to come out.

    But yes, being already in the mirrorless game, we want/expect better. But it does serve two purposes for Canon. A bridge up for the P&S crowd. And the lightweight backup for the dSLR crowd. It doesn't win over the existing mirrorless crowd, except for those that also have a Canon dSLR kit that has been gathering dust.
  17. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Aug 6, 2011
    I had a very different first impression than most in this thread. It looked to me like a great first camera to appeal to the large market of point-and-shoot upgraders who are inclined to choose mirrorless over DSLR. The 22mm lens also impressed me in terms of size and specs. I think Sony NEX would have attracted many more Micro 4/3 users to switch if they had a smaller, less expensive alternative to the Zeiss 24/1.8.

    The major things that I see as negative about this camera are the price and the AF speed with the 22mm lens. The price puts it in the mirrorless bracket, while the features look entry level. Meanwhile, the AF speed of the 22mm lens is supposedly awful.

    I wouldn't count Canon out by any means, though. They've introduced a mount and a spec. As someone said, their foot is in the door. Next model will probably have a flip LCD and add-on viewfinder. Not much later, we'll see their enthusiast model and some lenses that AF much faster.
  18. Bugleone

    Bugleone TalkEmount Veteran

    Aug 21, 2011

    We are going to see many more mirrorless cameras in the coming months and years because Sony has shown the viability and there is much more profit to be had from mirrorless models since there is no engineering involved as with DSLR's.

    Judging by watching Canon over the last 40+ years, there will likely never be any innovation from them other than by accident (when they gave the world the black plastic SLR with the T90)...Canon is distinctly heavyweight and the innovation comes from the lightweights (in photo industry terms) such as olympus and Panny etc.

    While the EOS-M may be competent it's hardly inspiring!
  19. snkenai

    snkenai TalkEmount Regular

    Jan 22, 2012
    Campbellsville, Ky
    Stephen Noel
    I see this as a very happy companion to the Cannon DSLR shooter, for those take a walk days, or have all the time camera. In this role, the looks are not what is important, it is the capability, portability and compatibility, with existing lenses (with adapter). The up-scale versions can now build on the format, if they so please. Just my thoughts. I think it is a good first move, if you as a company, are looking into the future, not just the immediate.
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