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Hello from Denmark. In need of some advice.

Discussion in 'Welcomes and Introductions' started by Sindustries, Aug 2, 2014.

  1. Sindustries

    Sindustries New to TalkEmount

    6
    Jul 26, 2014
    Denmark
    HI

    I am James, living in Denmark but originally from Scotland, been in Denmark/Greenland for 16 years. I picked up a Sony A7r and A Mount to E mount converter yesterday. I used to use a Sony A700 a few years ago and had a few old Minolta lens lying around so thought I should get some use from them.

    I also have a Nikon D800 and wanted something a bit lighter for traveling.

    I have uploaded some shots on flickr and ask you guys here for some advice because at the moment I am not really happy with the noise levels from the shots I am taking either in jpg or RAW, seems at even ISO 320 they are terrible with noise and very unsharp. I took them all with a Minolta 70-210 F4 Beercan which worked great on my A700 but of course that does not mean it will be good on the bigger sensor of the A7r.

    I upgrade the firmware this morning and if its just the lens then that fine, some of the shots are soft and I can live with that as I am still learning how to use the camera but the noise worries me. I believe the sensor is similar to my D800 one so I was expecting the noise levels to be almost the same but it's not. I plan on ordering a few E mount lenses soon but I have 7 days to return the camera for a full refund if there seems to be a problem.

    Here is a link to the album in flickr and the are all jpgs straight out the camera at the highest setting. https://www.flickr.com/photos/seamus3900/sets/72157645708455960/

    Thanks for any help/advice you can give, perhaps I am worried over nothing :D

    James
     
  2. WoodWorks

    WoodWorks Super Moderator

    Dec 12, 2012
    Ashland, OR, USA
    David
    Welcome James! I tried going through your Flickr page to find a photo that was shot at ISO 320, but gave up after a while. Most of the photos I looked at were either over- or under-exposed, and several were shot at shutter speeds approaching the focal length reciprocal of that lens, so those issues may be contributing to your dissatisfaction. In any case, could you perhaps post just one example of an ISO 320 image here so that we can get some idea of what it is that's troubling to you? I confess that in my brief scan I didn't come across any where noise was the issue.
     
  3. Sindustries

    Sindustries New to TalkEmount

    6
    Jul 26, 2014
    Denmark
    Hi

    Thanks for taking a look, it could just be in my imagination and you are right that they are over and under exposed but even correcting that in Lightroom give me a lot of noise. I was looking at them at 100% so perhaps its that which is confusing me into thinking its bad noise when its not. Right now I am really confused. I have changed the flickr settings so that the original photographs can be downloaded and looked at if anyone wants to do that.

    Again I really appreciate your help.

    This one is ISO 500 030 by Seamus MacChaluim, on Flickr

    This one is ISO 400 032 by Seamus MacChaluim, on Flickr

    This one is ISO 320 035 by Seamus MacChaluim, on Flickr
     
  4. michelb

    michelb TalkEmount Regular

    196
    Oct 27, 2013
    Greater Montreal area in Quebec, Canada
    Michel Brien
    Looking at your pictures, i see 2 other problems

    1) The Minota 70-210 F4 ( called BeerCan) has reputation for playing tricks on you at max aperture of F4 in that some copies or under some lighting conditions, a phenomenon called Vale Haze which reduces contrast in a major way making your picture look unsharp. This seems to be present in pics 026, 066,067. To help avoid (but not always) use the original lens shade and remove any protection filter you may have on since this will help reduce internal reflections or stop down 1 stop ( sometimes 1/2 stop will do the trick ).

    2) If you look at your pics 047 and 048, the diagonal lighter glob is either flare if you were shooting looking somewhat into the sun( which needs same solution as above) or light leak from your camera/adapter/lens combo

    Re-test at F 4.5 and see if results become more to your liking

    I noticed you are in Auto mode ???
    This exposure mode should not exist on an A7/A7r/A7s or D800 !
     
  5. Sindustries

    Sindustries New to TalkEmount

    6
    Jul 26, 2014
    Denmark
    HI

    Thanks again for taking a look. I think 47 and 48 are flare as I seen it when taking the pic and then moved away from the sun it got much better. I was switching between Auto Mode and Aperture Mode at f8 on some of them like below

    049 by Seamus MacChaluim, on Flickr

    So it seems its just my technique thats the problem and not a problem with noise at low levels?

    Not sure what you mean by "This exposure mode should not exist on an A7/A7r/A7s or D800" are you talking about auto mode? :)
     
  6. michelb

    michelb TalkEmount Regular

    196
    Oct 27, 2013
    Greater Montreal area in Quebec, Canada
    Michel Brien
    I am talking about Auto and iAuto mainly ( P-Mode can actually provide more override)
    These are advanced cameras and limiting them in their possibilities ( Can't change ISO, aperture, resolution etc in some of those exposure modes ) is somewhat of an amateurish way of using these. I remember seeing a tourist in Quebec city once with both a Hasselblad 500C ( all mechanical 120 film all Manual camera) and a 35mm point and shoot around his neck. Followed him for a few minutes to realize he was not using the Blad probably because he did not know how to use it at all (just for show). I often see photographers with the big D800 and using the cheapest antique off-brand zoom lens on it and in Auto mode. What is the purpose of owning such a camera if the glass in front of it is more like the bottom of a soft drink bottle and the Auto mode is on to provide reasonably good pictures but nothing outstanding or that can be overridden fast ?
    Making Point and shoot with no possible over-ride modes on advanced cameras is like getting your Ferrari run on 3 cylinders in auto transmission mode with no possibility to change radio stations or open the roof to allow incompetent drivers to use it. It can be done but then what kind of results are you getting out of it ?
    Just my 2 cents of opinion !
     
  7. Sindustries

    Sindustries New to TalkEmount

    6
    Jul 26, 2014
    Denmark
    HI,

    I agree but since I am just playing around with settings and checking that it all works I don't think it matters for the moment that it was on Auto Mode. I am more wondering if yourself and WoodWorks or any other member here think there is a problem with noise rather than just bad technique from myself?

    Thanks
    James
     
  8. michelb

    michelb TalkEmount Regular

    196
    Oct 27, 2013
    Greater Montreal area in Quebec, Canada
    Michel Brien
    I only see noise in underexposed portions but then again trying to shoot the cows/bulls in the shade with some of them in full light is an impossible shot without special settings. As for the logs, one is focused on the closest branch ( another comprise of the Auto modes is that it chose F4 which is max aperture and this is the weakest aperture to use on a zoom of any price) so the side of the logs are out of focus creating an impression of noise.

    Re-try something similar at F5.6 or F8 ( but you need to get out of Auto Mode to get there ) and on cloudy/hazy day and you will see your noise diminish and sharpness increase.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. WoodWorks

    WoodWorks Super Moderator

    Dec 12, 2012
    Ashland, OR, USA
    David
    First, let me put on my moderator hat here and say that it would be best if we avoid using words like "amateurish" when talking about other photographer's work or habits here. And second, I have to agree with Michel that when testing out new gear, it's ultimately more productive to do it in a systematic way, using specific camera settings that you choose rather than letting the camera make critical decisions about aperture and shutter speed. So shooting jpegs with auto-anything is not the best way to arrive at any conclusions about how the camera/lens combo is performing.

    I took a look at the ISO 500 photo you posted above, James, and I see no obvious high-ISO noise in it. There is however a ton of softness introduced by lens flare and the wide open aperture. Plus, there's considerable chromatic aberration at the edges of the frame. So I think most of the dissatisfaction you're having with these initial photos can be attributed to the lens and how it's set, not high-ISO noise. My guess is that if you shoot some properly exposed images, with the lens stopped down a little, and not into a bright light source, you'll not only end up with more pleasing images, but get a much better chance to evaluate the camera itself.

    I've never shot with an A7R, only the A7, but almost everything I've seen from it has been fairly spectacular.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Sindustries

    Sindustries New to TalkEmount

    6
    Jul 26, 2014
    Denmark
    Thanks for your reply guys and taking the time to look at the photographs its much appreciated. I will get out and take more shots and see how it goes. I ordered the Sony FE 24-70mm F4 so I hope to have that soon.

    James
     
  11. michelb

    michelb TalkEmount Regular

    196
    Oct 27, 2013
    Greater Montreal area in Quebec, Canada
    Michel Brien
    I was referring to users that buy advanced cameras and never get out of Auto mode when reffering to amateurish

    I was not referring to the original poster and would like to apologize if he felt this was directed to him

    This is a nice place to share and learn and since my native language is french, sometimes i may use expressions that exagerate my thinking
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Sindustries

    Sindustries New to TalkEmount

    6
    Jul 26, 2014
    Denmark
    Hi michelb, I did not take it personally at all and knew you were talking in a general way as you said above so no need to apologise to me at all :). I understand what its like to use a language thats not your own. Even after 16 years speaking Danish I still can't get my head around it sometimes.

    James
     
    • Like Like x 1