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Frustrated with 7 III + 100 GM

Discussion in 'Sony Alpha E-Mount Cameras' started by Antonio Correia, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. Antonio Correia

    Antonio Correia TalkEmount Regular

    119
    Feb 2, 2019
    Setúbal, Portugal
    I am a bit frustrated with the A7 III + 100 GM
    Working with a GM lenses and limiting the ISO to 5.000 the results are not spectacular but rather modest instead.
    Look at the quantity of noise in this image which I enlarged to 2:1. Isn't that huge ?
    I accept that it is supposed to be my own problem because I don't photograph correctly.
    I still have the Oly 5 Mk II with also great lenses. This Sony, with this lens is not better that the Oly with the 42.5 f/1.4. Perhaps it's only me. Am I being too demanding ???

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    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  2. AlwaysOnAuto

    AlwaysOnAuto TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Feb 17, 2015
    I would ask why are you shooting at f8?
     
  3. WoodWorks

    WoodWorks Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Dec 12, 2012
    Ashland, OR, USA
    David
    Do you get less noise with the Oly at ISO 5000? :hmmm:
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. Antonio Correia

    Antonio Correia TalkEmount Regular

    119
    Feb 2, 2019
    Setúbal, Portugal
    Thank you for your comment.
    Does that justifies the noise ? Perhaps the question is not that simple.
    And I am a crazy, bad photographer, I must admit.
    Bellow the original raw file in LR with a similar crop and the beautifully constructed histogram for appreciation.
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  5. Antonio Correia

    Antonio Correia TalkEmount Regular

    119
    Feb 2, 2019
    Setúbal, Portugal
    Don't know but I could try...
    Anyway... is this the Sony A7 III with expensive lens ???? This ?
     
  6. AlwaysOnAuto

    AlwaysOnAuto TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Feb 17, 2015
    I'm not even a rank amatuer photographer, just an old guy with a camera, so what do I know?
    I do know that if I'd taken that shot with my A7ii it would have a LOT more noise than what you've got there.
    I haven't shot my A7iii enough (5 shots so far?) to know what to expect from it, but I better get busy as my grandkids are coming for a visit from Japan later this month.
     
  7. fractal

    fractal TalkEmount Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Jun 17, 2014
    Southeastern PA
    Chris
    The 100mm 2.8 stf is a specialized lens. It has a Apodization element that robs light but produce near perfect bokeh. It's purpose it to be a portrait lens in good light. It's really not meant to be used as a "walk around" all purpose lens. Frankly, I'm not surprised by the noise level. It is sharp as hell though.

    @AlwaysOnAuto@AlwaysOnAuto On this lens "f/8" is really f/4 with a "T" rating of 8.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. WoodWorks

    WoodWorks Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Dec 12, 2012
    Ashland, OR, USA
    David
    Maybe I’m misunderstanding your objective, Antonio, but at ISO 5000 you’re going to get that much noise with any lens. And with most other cameras, worse noise.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Antonio Correia

    Antonio Correia TalkEmount Regular

    119
    Feb 2, 2019
    Setúbal, Portugal
    I will try the same scene tomorrow with the 135mm f/1.8 GM
     
  10. bdbits

    bdbits TalkEmount All-Pro

    Sep 10, 2015
    Bob
    How is your camera set up as far as shooting parameters? I think the issue is more about how you are setting up the shot than it is about the camera/lens.

    ISO is probably the biggest issue here. If you are using automatic or semi-automatic modes (P, A, or S) you can limit the ISO it will choose. Limit it to say 3200 or even 1600 to reduce noise.

    Shutter speed for scenes like this does not need to be real short/high, even if you did not have IBIS (which you do). Try 1/125 or 1/60th to allow sufficiently low ISO and/or smaller apertures.

    Aperture of course depends on what you want for depth of field. F8 is pretty stopped down especially for an indoors shot, but maybe that is what you needed for the look you were after.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. addieleman

    addieleman Passionate amateur Subscribing Member

    Nov 13, 2012
    Netherlands
    Ad Dieleman
    Working with an A7R2 I wouldn't be surprised to get this amount of noise at ISO 5000, in fact for me this would be perfectly OK. You could reduce the noise in a similar situation by opening up to f/5.6. A faster lens like the GM 1.8/135 will give you much less noise when used wide open with the same shutter speed because you can get by with a lower ISO value. Noise doesn't depend on the lens but solely on the ISO value and the optional under- or overexposure (EV correction) applied.

    When looking at the data of photonstophotos, the A7 Mark III is one of the best FF cameras in terms of dynamic range at higher ISO values. So it doesn't really matter if you like it or not, it'll be nearly impossible to find a better camera!
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. JonathanF2

    JonathanF2 TalkEmount Top Veteran

    986
    Aug 16, 2014
    Los Angeles, USA
    Looks okay to me. You have fatter pixels, more DR and the ability to apply stronger NR in post. I don't think you'd have as much leeway shooting with an M43 setup at such high ISO.
     
  13. WNG

    WNG TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 12, 2014
    Arrid Zone-A, USA
    Will
    Note: You shouldn't be assessing the noise within a shot by viewing at 2:1. Only at 1:1 for an accurate display of the image. Anything greater and you are introducing artificial artifacts of the magnification implemented. What noise there is will be exacerbated.
    Adding texture and clarity/vibrance in post can create noisier images in the trade off for more details. It's good to see that you posted an untouched RAW image for more accurate determination.
    I'd say you didn't take a bad photo according to the data and histogram. No, you're not a bad photographer. :)  (although I've discovered that my out of prescription glasses were causing me to oversharpen images! Maybe have your glasses checked if you rely on them.)
    The shot looked good to my eyes, and yes, it's a bit noisier than expected for ISO 5000 from an A7III.
    But the lens chosen is not the ideal one for the situation, as pointed out by fractal (Chris). Meant to be shot wide open. Designed for smooth bokeh.
    It's too late now, but an identical shot at 1/125 sec to 1/80 sec, f/2.8 to f/4, and corresponding lower ISO would have yielded a more cleaner result.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Antonio Correia

    Antonio Correia TalkEmount Regular

    119
    Feb 2, 2019
    Setúbal, Portugal
    Thank you BOB for your comment.
    The camera is for now - as I will be changing parameters as I learn to use it - for shooting higher speed than the focal distance of the lens which is on. I always shoot A making adjustments in the compensation. ISO is limited to 5.000
    I went to the marked again and I made a few shots. Obviously with the 135 shots with f/1.8 have low So and are great. Perhaps I was wrong when I was attracted to the 100 GM. But now it is a bit late.
    Latelly I have been using more and more great apertures so I can get shallow DOF.
    -
    Thank you Ad Dieleman for your words.
    It was with this idea in mind that I plunge to the 7III :) 
    -
    Thank you Jonathan ! :) 
    -
    Thank you WNG for your comment.
    I am in the learning process and that can take me some time...
    So, I am not a bad photographer... :blush: Well... :2thumbs: Just kidding ! :) 
    -
    Now, let me face the fact that I was mistaken when I bought this lens. Or better: I have to learn how to work with it correctly. Perhaps in the photo of the guy I have used a too small aperture... My error no doubt !
    Look at the same photo zoomed at 1:1 and with noise reduction applied. It looks better.
    Thank you all for your comments (again) and if you have tips to help me to use this beast correctly please, do not hesitate and tell me.
    Just one more note: the woman was shot with the 135 ! No. Two notes: all my shots are raw and never shown without "treatment"

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    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019 at 2:10 PM
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  15. christilou

    christilou TalkEmount All-Pro

    Nov 26, 2012
    Surrey, UK
    Christina
    I find iso is a delicate balance. I try not to let the camera choose as it almost always takes the easy option. I would set the iso yourself and open up your lens more, not sure why you might need f8, in challenging conditions, I always open up as much as I think is feasible under the circumstances.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Antonio Correia

    Antonio Correia TalkEmount Regular

    119
    Feb 2, 2019
    Setúbal, Portugal
    Thank you Christina. :) 
    As far as I know, the camera is set to move ISO up when necessary so the shutter speed is set to the double of the focal range mounted.
    I am not sure if I made myself understand. I try again.
    When the camera is set to an aperture (in A mode) the camera determines the speed as doubles of the focal distance (or more) of the lens "sacrifying" ISO
    ISO is limited to the number the user wants. Huuummm what a bad explanation ... perhaps you have understood. I hope so.
    I used f/8 in that instance because I was playing with the lens and wanted to see the results.

    I need some lines on when and how to use this exquisite lens whici I should have not bought ! :026:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. AlwaysOnAuto

    AlwaysOnAuto TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Feb 17, 2015
    I think it's a little too early in your experience with the lens to say you shouldn't have bought it.
    I'm going thru a similar learning curve with my new a7iii. I know that with use it will become more familiar to me. Until then it will be a nice point 'n shoot camera to shoot my grandkids with. I expect to take a least 6 months or more to feel as comfortable with it as I feel with my A7ii right now. It only took me about a year to get used to it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. bdbits

    bdbits TalkEmount All-Pro

    Sep 10, 2015
    Bob
    Don't write it off just yet, Antonio. Give yourself some time.

    The old rules about shutter speed needing to be a reciprocal of the focal length do not really apply to an IBIS-equipped camera. Your main concern as far as shutter speed should be subject movement. For people I try to keep it at 1/125th minimum, but in low light I sometimes go lower. If your subject is not moving, you can definitely go lower.

    Keep at it, experiment with different combos outside the usual rules. You might be surprised at how well things can work.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. christilou

    christilou TalkEmount All-Pro

    Nov 26, 2012
    Surrey, UK
    Christina
    Worth persevering, looks like a beautiful lens :) 
     
  20. quezra

    quezra TalkEmount All-Pro

    Aug 22, 2012
    I'm pretty sure STF lenses are designed to be used either outdoors or with additional lighting equipment. Even wide open it is already T5.6 so it's as bright as a kit lens generally speaking, which isn't very bright at all. If you wanted an available light lens you need f1.8 and below.

    For still portraiture, I shoot at 1/80-1/100 shutter speed. 1/320 is way too high given your lens constraints.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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