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Color Science

Discussion in 'Image Processing' started by WestOkid, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. WestOkid

    WestOkid TalkEmount All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jan 25, 2014
    New Jersey, USA
    Gary
    I found this quite interesting. I know Tony and Chelsea are pretty polarizing, but I feel they are generally objective. Even so, putting feelings aside, I am 100% with them on this. Maybe being in IT has turned me into a robot, but I never got this whole color science thing for people who shoot raw. I also believe the idea of calling it "science" is ridiculous because the goal is not to be accurate but to appeal to people's feelings.

     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
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  2. bdbits

    bdbits TalkEmount All-Pro

    Sep 10, 2015
    Bob
    I've not watched the entire video but there is a discussion about it over on FM where I regularly lurk in the corners.

    Though I am not a fan of the Northrups, I can agree "color science" as people have in their heads when talking about it is mostly subjective. There is color fidelity but that is not what most people really have in mind. I would go so far as to say people do not really want "accurate" color - they want warm tones for people and more saturated colors in general, as long as it is not overdone.
     
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  3. WNG

    WNG TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 12, 2014
    Arrid Zone-A, USA
    Will
    I agree, the whole 'color science' debate seemed to have been sprouted from nowhere. They (Canon or Canon fanboys) coined the term out of the blue, when they ran out of things to pick at when Sony released the A7III/A7RIII/A9.
    The SOOC JPEG rendering improved in the 3rd gen. It's a subject that only weighed in by JPEG shooters. And I think it matters little to the serious RAW shooter.
    Color out of the camera is so subjective. Look at how many different ways Fuji cooks the colors to suit your tastes.
    We might as well argue where the best pizza is made, New York, New Haven, Chicago, Rome, Naples!

    There is an excellent video put out by Sean Tucker that preceded the Tony Northrup findings. It's an excellent video delving into 'color science'. He went into depth comparing Canon vs. Sony skintones. His findings were similar, that people are drawn to warmed up colors. Neither the Canon nor the newer Sony, were accurate when it came to skintones. He explained an algorithm for skintones and applied to both brands 'color science'. And what resulted was much improved and identical.
    The video is worth watching. This creative artist puts out very good content.
     
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  4. WoodWorks

    WoodWorks Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Dec 12, 2012
    Ashland, OR, USA
    David
    Pfff! Naples, of course! :cool: 
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  5. pellicle

    pellicle TalkEmount Regular

    to my recollection the term colour science comes from way way back before there was even digital cameras (or at least ones out of labs).

    Understanding how additive and subtractive models work was the foundation (in both print and projected media) and digital built upon that with addition of new technologies and the need to understand colour space.

    So to me it has a long history.

    I haven't watched that ep because I just don't watch stuff (or read stuff) where I know that the primary goal of the author is not to be a neutral educator (or one better, one engaged in a dialog) but to be nothing more than a provocateur for the proposes of building a business of suckers (which would be Tony).

    There are some great publications by Adobe on the matter if anyone is interested.

    Best Wishes
     
  6. pellicle

    pellicle TalkEmount Regular

    I vote Rome ;-)
     
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  7. serhan

    serhan TalkEmount All-Pro

    Aug 27, 2011
    NYC
    A couple weeks ago I found Sean Tucker videos and was watching them. He switched to Sony lately from Fuji/Canon combo and he has an interesting video about the color differences between Canon and Sony:



    I think some of the differences might be due to lens coating differences between maufacturers also...
     
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  8. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Aug 6, 2011
    Seems like all of this brand-specific color science stuff only really applies to JPEG shooters and people using the manufacturer-provided raw processing app. None of the usual color science generalizations about Canon vs Nikon vs Sony vs Olympus vs Leica has any relationship to what I am getting using default profiles in my raw processing app of choice (C1).
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. pellicle

    pellicle TalkEmount Regular

    I suspect that's still a big amount ... perhaps even in the commercial world too.

    I've taken images with my 20D (back a while ago now naturally) what I've just never been able to be satisfied with any RAW rendering (the opposite is also true too)
     
  10. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Aug 6, 2011
    I recently visited Steve Huff's site for the first time in forever and skimmed his review of the new Canon. The gist of it seemed to be that it is the bestest camera ever largely because of color science :) .
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
    • Funny Funny x 8
  11. christilou

    christilou TalkEmount All-Pro

    Nov 26, 2012
    Surrey, UK
    Christina
    I've looked at a lot of videos and followed a lot of conversations regarding colour profiles. It seemed to me that the Canon skin tones tend towards being quite yellow whereas the Sony is slightly green in cast. I like to use various paid for profiles from different sellers and just tweak them to look as I like. I also think that white balance has a lot to do with the eventual outcome. Steve Huff tends to like sizzling hot colours :p 
     
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  12. JonathanF2

    JonathanF2 TalkEmount Top Veteran

    838
    Aug 16, 2014
    Los Angeles, USA
    I used to work as a photo editor at a Hollywood photo agency processing thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of digital photos back in the early 2000s. Everything from the Oscars, Emmys and all the red carpet movie premieres. Between Canon and Nikon, I dreaded having to edit Canon photos. I found the images cold and sterile. Nikon on the other hand had the best reds and warmest skin tones. So when people talk about Canon color science, it's hard for me to believe this so called preference!
     
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