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Bad, bad Sony

Discussion in 'Sony Alpha E-Mount Cameras' started by Amamba, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. Amamba

    Amamba TalkEmount All-Pro

    Apr 13, 2013
    SE MI
    So, today for the first time I stopped by Worst Buy to look at other Nex bodies.

    I came out pissed at Sony.

    I always like to buy the cheapest body that provides the best IQ, and spend the difference on lenses. Unfortunately, after handling 5n and 3n, I know I won't like them. They are too small, even the lack of EVF aside.

    Nex 6, on the other hand, felt perfect. Seems that it's just a tiny bit bulkier than F3, still small but very comfortable to hold. So here goes another $300 when it's upgrade time... If Sony ever releases the Nex line upgrade.

    I still don't understand why they had to de-content their 3 level bodies. Perhaps to make them closer to P&S ?

    Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
     
  2. davect01

    davect01 Super Moderator

    Aug 20, 2011
    Fountain Hills, AZ
    Dave
    I don't see the point of complaining about Sony. They make a variety of bodies to fit a variety of people.

    I personally am very content with my F3. I really like the 6 and 7, but could only afford the F3 right now.

    If none of the one's Sony makes tickles your fancy, there are plenty of other makers.
     
  3. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    Well, the 3 series is supposed to be cheap - that's their only purpose. They have exactly the same sensor as the 5 and 6 series, which makes them great deals for P&S upgraders. The more expensive models have some very advanced features that usually justify their price. Ever seen a control scheme better than the NEX-7 Tri-Navi? Or a cheaper camera with an as good EVF as the 6?
     
  4. Amamba

    Amamba TalkEmount All-Pro

    Apr 13, 2013
    SE MI
    My point was, they had put less content in 3n that they had in F3.
     
  5. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    They made it just like they thought P&S-upgraders would like it. And I agree that a built-in flash is much more important for these people than the ability to use an €300 external EVF. Oh, and did I mention that it's DAMN cheap for what it is - a mirrorless camera with an APS-C sized sensor.
     
  6. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther TalkEmount Veteran

    473
    Aug 9, 2011
    The "3" line has been erratic IMHO.

    -First there was the 3 which made sense to the 5
    -Then we got the C3
    -Then F3
    -Now 3N

    Eh:confused:
     
  7. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    And now? We also had the 5, 5N, 5R and soon 5T. There's no logic in the naming scheme Sony uses for their E-Mount cameras, and it's logical to update the entry level bodies more often than the higher end ones.
     
  8. Tabibito

    Tabibito TalkEmount Regular

    177
    Apr 1, 2013
    Well the only thing the 3N is lacking compared to the F3 is the accessory port. Three if you also count the grip and body size ^_^. Other than that it is quite an improvement.
     
  9. Lucille

    Lucille TalkEmount Veteran

    351
    May 22, 2013
    I am very very happy with my Sony Nex 3n.

    And I am far from some 'point and shoot' upgrader.
     
  10. ChangshaNotes

    ChangshaNotes Super Moderator

    Aug 15, 2012
    China
    Colin
    I think you are the exact example they are looking at when they decide what functions to put in each model.

    It makes perfect sense to me.
     
  11. Jaf-Photo

    Jaf-Photo TalkEmount Veteran

    484
    Mar 25, 2013
    Generally, the various models, versions and generations of cameras is turning into a jungle. I think the manufacturers are putting out far too many models that are either no different or even dumbed down from previous models.

    My personal take on this is that the readiness of mobile phone photography means that more people are getting into taking photos and eventually buying proper cameras. This first buy tends to be quite daunting for many, so apparent ease of use and low price is a priority for manufacturers, along with constantly updated design looks. I think this goes for the second upgrade too. When it comes to the higher-end enthusiast models, their changes are directed more at feeding the upgrade beast in advanced users ;)

    This makes it essential to do proper research before buying. For instance, when I bought my Canon T2i / 550D, it was based on several tests that showed it to out-perform the Canon 7D in image quality, despite being based on the same sensor and being half the price (attributed to a hard-coded aa-filter). That made it quite an easy choice.

    But as long as you can find a good model that suits your needs, the rest is the manufacturers' headache.

    On a side note, the manual Minolta X-700 film camera that I own, was manufactured and sold between 1981 and 1999. That's a product life of 18 years, when today's cameras are yesterday's news after six months....
     
  12. Jethro10

    Jethro10 TalkEmount Regular

    48
    May 28, 2013
    I AM a point and shoot upgrader.

    I'm well enough off if I wanted to, to spend several thousands on a camera.

    The reason I bought a NEX 3N above all other options was because it was so small I would be tempted to take it out much more often, as often as a compact.

    Guess we're all different.

    mind I'm getting more into this photography thing, and calmly looking at my next options ;-) Although, it's perhaps becasue it is so small, that I'm getting more into it?

    Jeff
     
  13. Amamba

    Amamba TalkEmount All-Pro

    Apr 13, 2013
    SE MI
    My point exactly. The lack of accessory port means you are limited to using the weak onboard flash, and (less importantly) not being able to get an EVF. The size and lack of good grip are equally important, to me at least. Using a small body with legacy lenses is no fun.

    I firmly believe that having a well featured lower priced product helps to get people into the line. Canon Rebels (and entry level Nikons) are a great example - you buy a Rebel because it has the same IQ as a higher end body, and much of the same functionality, you buy a bunch of lenses and you are basically married into the system, even if you keep buying entry level bodies. It's not an accident that Rebels, not full frame cameras, are Canon's bread and butter.

    It's a pitfall of many large corporations - they are arrogant and fail to realize they don't exist in vacuum. They start decontenting entry level product in hope that customers will start buying more of their higher end models, and then are caught by surprise when instead the customers are switching to the competition offering the desired features at lower price.

    Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
     
  14. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    Don't forget that we (the nerds on a camera forum ;)) aren't exactly the main customers for the 3 series. I guess 95% of NEX-3 owners never buy a second lens, let alone an expensive flash or EVF.
     
  15. Amamba

    Amamba TalkEmount All-Pro

    Apr 13, 2013
    SE MI
    They would be better served by a P&S then.

    Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
     
  16. Poki

    Poki TalkEmount Hall of Famer

    Aug 30, 2011
    Austria
    No. Most people want to get the 'best image quality' for their money. And arguably, the awesome APS-C sensor is reason enough for many to buy a NEX. That's exactly the same as it was (and, at least in my country, still is) with entry level DSLRs. A RX100 might be pocketable and comparable in IQ, but still, it's almost twice the money. Nothing comes close IQ wise to a NEX-3 at €250 - €350.
     
  17. quezra

    quezra TalkEmount Top Veteran

    916
    Aug 22, 2012
    You're forgetting that cameras are also computers these days, and need a processor to run things. The likely reason for nerfing the 3-series of a lot of its features is that to cut costs, they also used a weaker processor that can't do as much things as the higher end cameras. So what looks like a software hamstring (e.g. no ISO 100) in some cases may have very good engineering reasons behind it for reasons we don't always know.
     
  18. davect01

    davect01 Super Moderator

    Aug 20, 2011
    Fountain Hills, AZ
    Dave
    Not me. I wanted a better camera, better IQ without the cost.

    I don't need all the extras. That's the point. Perhaps I might later, just not right now.
     
  19. ajm80031

    ajm80031 TalkEmount Regular

    35
    Jul 16, 2013
    Some things to keep in mind here:

    - With consumer electronics, a common strategy is to release a plethora of products with slightly different feature sets and prices. The idea is that stores have limited display space, so the more products of yours they have on display the less space they have for competitor's products. So the number of models may have little to do with perceived consumer needs.

    - Having long lists of features is seen as a selling point. It doesn't necessarily matter if the features are very useful or not, more is perceived to be better. (For instance, I'd love it if I could dump most or all of the in-camera processing options from my NEX-6 to cut down on clutter in the menu system but Sony isn't going to release a camera like that.)

    - Sony is aiming for a number of different potential buyers with the NEX line: point-and-shooters who are upgrading, DSLR owners who want a second camera, people looking for DSLR-like quality in a smaller/lighter package, etc. Their marketing folks will have divided the space up based on their perception of potential buyers and instructed product development to produce particular feature mixes at particular price points. If one of their identified segments lines up well with your needs/desires then there's a good chance that something in the line is a fit for you. If you're somewhere in between their identified segments, out outside of them altogether, it's unlikely their models will appeal.

    In my experience, Sony is one of the worse companies for taking a really good initial design and then degrading it over time by introducing more and more questionable features while cutting back on the quality of basic components. For instance, their 3-CCD "prosumer" SD camcorders produced worse video with each successive generation because they reduced the sensor size, added more pixels (to be able to produce stills, but doing so degraded quality for video), and reduced the amount of manual control. It took a bit of a leap of faith for me to jump back on the Sony bandwagon after having been burned by such products in the past. But what they've done with the Alpha and NEX lines so far suggests they're far more likely to deliver useful new technologies into still cameras than Canon or Nikon (both of whom have massive existing businesses to protect) so I took the plunge.
     
  20. Jaf-Photo

    Jaf-Photo TalkEmount Veteran

    484
    Mar 25, 2013
    Well, I don't know why Sony is not taking better care of the NEX-line. It seems to have very little momentum at the moment.

    On holiday, I am noticing a lot of people with small colourful Nikons or the 38x zoom p&s fixed lens type deals, which are by no means inexpensive. Very few NEXes, although it's a far better system in the same price point. The difference I think is the relative lack of advertising and inflated spec sheets of other cameras.

    In the interest of good photography, it would be nice to see Sony reaching a greater portion of the average camera buyers.

    P.S. No offence meant to the Nikon camp, I just don't think their compact range is as interesting.