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A7R or A7II?

Discussion in 'Sony Alpha E-Mount Cameras' started by robfactory, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. robfactory

    robfactory TalkEmount Regular

    124
    Aug 23, 2014
    Rob
    I shoot a lot of street photography. It's actually the thing I do the most.
    I've really thought about selling my A7R and getting the A7II.
    I know there's a mp difference of 12mp, but that IBIS seems like will help with my style of photography and other branded prime lenses.
    What's do you guys think?
     
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  2. mattia

    mattia TalkEmount Regular

    143
    Dec 13, 2013
    If you don't print ridiculous sizes the A7II is probably the better bet although I'd wait for some actual user reviews first. I have 100 cm wide prints from 21 MP 5DII images that have plenty of detail.


    Sent from my iPhone using TalkEmount
     
  3. robfactory

    robfactory TalkEmount Regular

    124
    Aug 23, 2014
    Rob
    I have a Canon Pro-100, the most I print is 13"x19"
    I figure 24mp should be more than enough.
     
  4. mattia

    mattia TalkEmount Regular

    143
    Dec 13, 2013
    Even 16MP will yield great images at that size, so yes, the 24 MP will be fairly ample :)


    Sent from my iPhone using TalkEmount
     
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  5. Dan Euritt

    Dan Euritt TalkEmount Regular

    191
    Jan 11, 2014
    you'll take a big hit in:
    1)cropability,
    2)noise cleanup when downsizing,
    3)manual focusing will be worse with the a7(a7ii as well?), because the evf magnification isn't as good as it is on the a7r... see this video, comparing what you see in the evf, with a7s vs. a7 vs. a7r:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxuLUBNDl-M

    you'll probably come out ahead in:
    1)losing the .163 second shutter delay on the a7r,
    2)possibly better autofocus with the a7?
    3)no a7r "shutter shock" issues, real or imagined.
     
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  6. bartjeej

    bartjeej TalkEmount Rookie

    23
    Oct 8, 2014
    Not sure if I agree on this. If you downsize the a7R's image to 24mp, it gives a slight advantage over the a7, but nothing you'd call 'big'. Any downsampling from that point onwards shouldn't give an additional difference.
     
  7. Dan Euritt

    Dan Euritt TalkEmount Regular

    191
    Jan 11, 2014
    when you edit the file, you have 33% more data to edit with, which is where the advantage is.

    before downsizing, the a7r sensor already has a slight theoretical iso advantage over the a7 sensor... 2746 iso vs. 2248 iso, per dxo.

    dxo downsizes both camera files to 8mp for the print comparison, and the a7r pulls ahead of the a7 in every category at 8mp... however, i don't think that they include an iso 8mp print test, so we can't compare that specifically.

    maybe look at it in the dpr comparison tool? or perhaps this link, comparing both images shot at 3200iso, with the a7r downsized to a7 size, it appears to me that the a7r pic is definitely cleaner:
    http://www.verybiglobo.com/sony-alpha-a7-ilce-7-and-sony-alpha-a7r-ilce-7r-part-9-finalshowdown/

    i'm not bagging on ibis, i had it on my k10d, i thought that it was great... i'm just saying take everything into consideration.
     
  8. Rollin

    Rollin TalkEmount Regular

    97
    Jul 2, 2014
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    For street photography if you are zone focusing then no gain in A7II better AF, but if you are using the AF then should be huge over the A7R's contrast only AF system.


    Trying not to hijack the thread, but I've seen this downsizing/noise here and there - how exactly do you do that to get the gains in NR? Is it as simple as export a TIFF from the RAW just sized down? Then do you work the TIFF up with NR and other stuff?
     
  9. jai

    jai TalkEmount Top Veteran

    589
    Feb 4, 2013
    I think it is as simple as, if you have more pixels, noise reduction techniques can smooth over the noise at the pixel level without losing as much detail.

    You can effectively just use a bigger "radius" value for noise reduction before the smudginess becomes apparent.
     
  10. bartjeej

    bartjeej TalkEmount Rookie

    23
    Oct 8, 2014
    If you compare images at 100%, the higher res sensor will have more noise. However if you downsize the high res sensor to match the lower res sensor's resolution (eg from 36mp to 24), you effectively merge two or more adjacent pixels into one, giving that one pixel the average value of the two or more previous pixels. Noise - unwanted variation in value between the previous pixels - is eliminated by the average-ing, making the 100% view look cleaner, but with fewer pixels there's ofcourse also less detail. The basic result should be that, all else being equal (and it hardly ever is equal), the 36mp image downsized to 24mp should be equally noisy as the native 24mp sensor, and have an equal amount of detail.

    Jai's NR explanation basically does the same thing (reducing noise and detail to the level of a lower resolution sensor) but without affecting pixel count.

    Smart NR algorhythms can vary the level of NR based on the content, giving you the best of both worlds. That's the only real benefit of higher res sensors when it comes to noise, and it has nothing to do with downsizing.

    A potential downside of higher res sensors is that the overall light gathering area can be reduced, if the electronic wiring doesn't scale down in proportion to the smaller individual pixels. Micromirrors can go some way to reducing that downside as well.

    All in all I'd say sensor tuning is a way more important determinant of overall image noise than resolution. This can be seen with the a7 series; when it comes to overall image noise regardless of resolution (as measured by DxO), the lowest mp-count a7S scores highest, then the highest mp-count a7R, and last (but still better than almost all other cameras out there) is the regular a7, which in terms of megapixels is in the middle. Those differences are down to tuning, not resolution.
     
  11. ggibson

    ggibson TalkEmount Regular

    154
    Sep 1, 2011
    I don't think we know enough yet about the A7ii to give you any recommendation. But consider what happens when an A9 comes out next year with the bonuses of the A7ii and more. Will you be looking to upgrade once more?
     
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  12. Dan Euritt

    Dan Euritt TalkEmount Regular

    191
    Jan 11, 2014
    actual practice can get rather complicated... http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/image-resize-for-web.htm

    when you are downsizing a7r 36mp vs. a7 24mp for export, if it's done right every single aspect of the picture is improved, when you start out with higher resolution... you can see it on the 8mp scale, using the "print" button for snr, dr, tonal range, and color sensitivity, for both cameras:
    http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7-versus-Sony-A7R___916_917

    "Contrary to conventional wisdom, higher resolution actually compensates for noise"
    http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/More-pixels-offset-noise
     
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  13. Thaewon

    Thaewon New to TalkEmount

    1
    Nov 26, 2014
    Do someone know if the stab will work when using the magnification for manual focusing? It could be very decisive for people using long legacy lenses.